{"id":997,"date":"2015-10-18T14:25:04","date_gmt":"2015-10-18T18:25:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/press.nbcnews.com\/?p=997"},"modified":"2015-10-18T14:25:04","modified_gmt":"2015-10-18T18:25:04","slug":"mtp-sunday-exclusive-sen-cruz-gop-leadership-most-effective-democrat-leaders-weve-ever-seen","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/nbcuniversalnewsgroup.com\/nbcnews\/2015\/10\/18\/mtp-sunday-exclusive-sen-cruz-gop-leadership-most-effective-democrat-leaders-weve-ever-seen\/","title":{"rendered":"MTP SUNDAY EXCLUSIVE: SEN. CRUZ: GOP LEADERSHIP \u201cMOST EFFECTIVE DEMOCRAT LEADERS WE\u2019VE EVER SEEN\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><strong><em>Sen. Ted Cruz tells Todd exclusively: \u201cDonald [Trump\u2019s] campaign has been immensely beneficial for our campaign\u201d<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Cruz: GOP leadership is \u201cmaking it easier for Obama and Reid to add trillions in debt\u201d<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong><em>Rep. Adam Schiff on the Benghazi Committee: \u201cWe don&#8217;t know what we&#8217;re looking for\u2026. Apart from damning Hillary Clinton, it has no reason for existing\u201d<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>OCT. 18, 2015 &#8212; Republican presidential candidate <strong>Sen. Ted Cruz <\/strong>said Republican leaders, especially in the Senate, are \u201cmaking it easier for Barack Obama and [Senate Minority Leader] Harry Reid to add trillions in debt\u201d in an exclusive interview with NBC News\u2019 \u201cMeet the Press\u201d moderator Chuck Todd on the campaign trail in New Hampshire.<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;The truth of the matter is Republican leadership are the most effective Democrat leaders we&#8217;ve ever seen,\u201d said Cruz. \u201cThey&#8217;ve passed more Democratic priorities than Harry Reid ever could.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>In discussion of the House race for Speaker, when asked if he considered Rep. Paul Ryan a \u201ctrue conservative,\u201d Cruz replied, \u201cThat&#8217;s a decision for House Republicans to make and for the American people to make.\u201d Watch the full interview here: <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1RPPJ39\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1RPPJ39<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>\u201cMeet the Press\u201d also featured a Sunday exclusive interview with <strong>Rep. Mike Pompeo<\/strong> (R-KS) and <strong>Rep. Adam Schiff<\/strong> (D-CA), both members of the Select Committee on Benghazi, before which former Sec. Hillary Clinton will testify on Thursday.<\/p>\n<p>When asked why certain witnesses were not brought in for hearings before the committee, Rep. Schiff replied \u201cbecause they\u2019re not running for president.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Rep. Pompeo weighed in on the Speaker race, voicing support for Rep. Ryan if he does run, characterizing him as a \u201ctrue conservative\u201d in contrast with Cruz\u2019s unwillingness to do so.<\/p>\n<p>Republican strategist <strong>Alex Castellanos<\/strong>; National Journal\u2019s <strong>Ron Fournier<\/strong>; NBC News\u2019 <strong>Andrea Mitchell<\/strong> and The Cook Political Report\u2019s <strong>Amy Walter<\/strong> joined the show\u2019s roundtable to discuss the week in political news.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong><u>MANDATORY CREDIT: NBC NEWS\u2019 \u201cMEET THE PRESS\u201d \u00a0<\/u><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Mandatory credit to NBC News\u2019 \u201cMeet the Press\u201d on first reference.<\/li>\n<li>The onscreen \u201cMeet the Press Exclusive\u201d credit must be clearly visible and unobstructed at all times in any image, video clip, or other form of media.<\/li>\n<li>Embedded web video must stream from the NBCNews.com media player with the unobstructed credit as described above.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cruz: \u201cDonald [Trump\u2019s] campaign has been immensely beneficial for our campaign\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>WATCH: <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1ju5h1g\"><em>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1ju5h1g<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>SENATOR TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>I think Donald&#8217;s campaign has been immensely beneficial for our campaign. \u00a0And&#8211; and the reason is he&#8217;s framed the central issue of this Republican primary as who will stand up to Washington? \u00a0Well, the natural follow up if that&#8217;s the question is who actually has stood up to Washington? \u00a0Who has stood up to both Democrats and to leaders in their own party?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So you think that distinguishes you from Donald Trump and Ben Carson?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>And from everyone else on that stage. \u00a0I think my record is markedly different in terms of actually standing up and taking on the Washington cartel. \u00a0And I think that&#8217;s why we&#8217;re seeing particularly as voters get more and more educated, study the candidates, listen to the candidates in person, I think that&#8217;s why we&#8217;re seeing the grassroots momentum that we&#8217;re seeing.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cruz: \u201cRepublican leadership are the most effective Democrat leaders we\u2019ve ever seen\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>WATCH: <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1KhWft9\"><em>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1KhWft9<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>In fact, what the Republican majorities have done, we came back right after the last election, passed a trillion dollars cromnibus bill, filled with corporate welfare reform. \u00a0Then Republican leadership and&#8211; and leadership joined with Harry Reid and the Democrats to do that.<\/p>\n<p>Then leadership voted to fund Obamacare. \u00a0Then they voted to fund amnesty. \u00a0Then they voted to fund Planned Parenthood. \u00a0And then Republican leadership took the lead confirming Loretta Lynch as Attorney General. \u00a0Now Chuck, which one of those decisions is one iota different than what would happened under Harry Reid and the Democrats? \u00a0The truth of the matter is Republican leadership are the most effective Democrat leaders we&#8217;ve ever seen. \u00a0They&#8217;ve passed more Democratic priorities than Harry Reid ever could.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Cruz: \u201cI don\u2019t believe we should be engaged in nation building\u201d <\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>WATCH: <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1PAbbcZ\"><em>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1PAbbcZ<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>If you become President though, you&#8217;re gonna keep his&#8211; this policy in place of keeping those troops there in Afghanistan?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>It will depend on the mission. \u00a0I don&#8217;t believe we should be engaged in nation building. \u00a0I don&#8217;t believe we should be trying to transform foreign countries into democratic utopias, trying to turn Iraq into Switzerland. \u00a0But I do think it is the job of our military to protect this country, to hunt down and kill jihadists who would murder us.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Syria, priority, Assad outta power or ISIS?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>ISIS, ISIS, ISIS.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So basically table the Assad discussion right now?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Look, we have no business stickin&#8217; our nose in that civil war. \u00a0And there are a lotta politicians including Hillary Clinton on the left and including quite a few of the Republicans running for President on the right who want us to get in the middle of that civil war.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rep. Schiff explains why certain Benghazi witnesses have not testified<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>WATCH: <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1QIlp9z\"><em>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1QIlp9z<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>The reason, the answer to your question Chuck, about why we haven&#8217;t brought in a defense secretary as they said they would, why we haven&#8217;t brought in a C.I.A. director, why we haven&#8217;t brought in any of these witnesses for a hearing, is because they&#8217;re not running for president.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p>Below are highlights, video clips, and a rush transcript of today\u2019s program. Additional show video is available online at<a href=\"http:\/\/www.meetthepressnbc.com\"> www.MeetThePressNBC.com<\/a>. Join the conversation online with hashtag #MTP.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Full Exclusive Interview with Sen. Ted Cruz <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1RPPJ39\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1RPPJ39<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Cruz Has a Lot to Say About Republicans <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1hLGMuH\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1hLGMuH<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Cruz: McConnell Telling a \u2018Falsehood is Public Record\u2019 <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1jNZu60\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1jNZu60<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Chuck: Biden is Leaning \u2018Yes\u2019 To a 2016 Run <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1LDjd3d\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1LDjd3d<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Why the Fight Between Bush &amp; Rubio is Getting Ugly <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1ONq6Qs\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1ONq6Qs<\/a><\/li>\n<li>The Benghazi Committee Vs. Hillary Clinton <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1Xd6OXR\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1Xd6OXR<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Panel: Joe Biden\u2019s 2016 Timetable <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1MMDdkS\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1MMDdkS<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Nerdscreen: Visualizing the Debate Conversation <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1LDumB0\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1LDumB0<\/a><\/li>\n<li>comPRESSed: Catch Up in Less Than 2 Minutes <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1kgHySl\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1kgHySl<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p>MEET THE PRESS &#8211; OCTOBER 18, 2015<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>This Sunday morning, a new sense of urgency in the presidential race. \u00a0On one side, Hillary Clinton&#8217;s strong debate performance ups the pressure on Joe Biden and whether he gets in. \u00a0On the other, Trump and Carson are sitting on top. \u00a0But is Ted Cruz about to have his moment?<\/p>\n<p>TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>If you&#8217;re looking for a candidate who the career politicians in Washington will embrace, I&#8217;m not your guy.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>My sit-down with the senator from Texas. \u00a0Also, showdown over Benghazi. \u00a0Hillary Clinton prepares to testify before the House Benghazi committee. \u00a0But has the committee been discredited even before the hearing starts? \u00a0Plus, did Donald Trump just blame George W. Bush for 9\/11?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Blame him or don&#8217;t blame him, but he was president.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Or is Jeb Bush just definitely looking to pick a fight with Trump? \u00a0Finally, the Bernie Sanders impersonation we&#8217;ve all been waiting for.<\/p>\n<p>LARRY DAVID:<\/p>\n<p>Hello, hello, hello. \u00a0Enough of the hellos, let&#8217;s do this.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And joining me this morning to provide insight and analysis are <em>The National Journal&#8217;s<\/em> Ron Fournier, Andrea Mitchell of NBC News, Amy Walter of <em>The Cook Political Report<\/em>, and Republican strategist Alex Castellanos. \u00a0Welcome to Sunday, it&#8217;s <em>Meet the Press<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>ANNOUNCER:<\/p>\n<p>From NBC News in Washington, this is <em>Meet the Press<\/em> with Chuck Todd.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Good Sunday morning. \u00a0If you get the feeling that there&#8217;s a new sense of urgency in this presidential campaign, well you&#8217;re right. \u00a0On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton&#8217;s strong performance in the Las Vegas debate on Tuesday has led to calls for the vice president to say thumbs up or thumbs down now.<\/p>\n<p>On the Republican side, Rand Paul and Chris Christie are proving that they may be pretenders. \u00a0Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio are both struggling and pointing the finger at the other. \u00a0And a number of other candidates soon may not even be able to pay their bills. \u00a0So if you don&#8217;t think the leaders, Donald Trump and Ben Carson, are in this for the long haul, then the conservative you may want to take a look at is our next guest.<\/p>\n<p>Ted Cruz is the only other candidate in double digits in this week&#8217;s Fox News poll. \u00a0And he looks like the candidate most likely to pick up Trump and Carson supporters if and that&#8217;s a big if, they do eventually stray. \u00a0Plus, Cruz is raising lots of money, he&#8217;s not spending much, and he&#8217;s got plenty of cash on hand. \u00a0I caught up with him yesterday in New Hampshire and began by asking him how he plans to eventually pick off those Trump and Carson voters.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>SENATOR TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>I think Donald&#8217;s campaign has been immensely beneficial for our campaign. \u00a0And&#8211; and the reason is he&#8217;s framed the central issue of this Republican primary as who will stand up to Washington? \u00a0Well, the natural follow up if that&#8217;s the question is who actually has stood up to Washington? \u00a0Who has stood up to both Democrats and to leaders in their own party?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So you think that distinguishes you from Donald Trump and Ben Carson?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>And from everyone else on that stage. \u00a0I think my record is markedly different in terms of actually standing up and taking on the Washington cartel. \u00a0And I think that&#8217;s why we&#8217;re seeing particularly as voters get more and more educated, study the candidates, listen to the candidates in person, I think that&#8217;s why we&#8217;re seeing the grassroots momentum that we&#8217;re seeing.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You were sitting there saying that you could stop Obamacare if you just did what you did in shutting down the government and that Republicans could stop the Iran deal. \u00a0The fact is you couldn&#8217;t. \u00a0The numbers weren&#8217;t on your side.<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s a Democratic President so&#8211; so did you overpromise? \u00a0Cause I understand you&#8217;re saying others but did you?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Look, when it comes to promising, what I promised is that I would fight with every breath in my body to stop the outta control spending and the debt that is bankrupting our country, to stop Obamacare, to protect our nation.<\/p>\n<p>And&#8211; and that&#8217;s a b&#8211; all of those are promises that I have honored every single day in the Senate. \u00a0And&#8211; and, you know, it&#8217;s amazing. \u00a0So I was visiting with the colleague recently who was making that pitch about, &#8220;Well gosh, the problem is expectations. \u00a0We need to define expectations now.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Correct. \u00a0A bunch of Republicans have been saying this.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>And&#8211; and&#8211; and Chuck, it&#8217;s complete&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And they blame you.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s complete nonsense because you know who the people promising are? \u00a0It&#8217;s actually Republican leadership on that campaign.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Why do you think John Boehner&#8217;s stepping down? \u00a0He&#8217;s stepping down because the American people are furious with Republican leaders that don&#8217;t do what they promised. \u00a0And you know, it&#8217;s interesting. \u00a0I do townhalls all over the country.<\/p>\n<p>And I asked folks, &#8220;Okay. \u00a0We have Republican majorities in both houses for ten months now. \u00a0What on Earth have they accomplished?&#8221; \u00a0Every town hall you do that, the answer is always, &#8220;Absolutely nothing.&#8221; \u00a0And&#8211; and usually I respond and say, &#8220;You know what? \u00a0It&#8217;s worse than that. \u00a0It would have been better if it were nothing.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>In fact, what the Republican majorities have done, we came back right after the last election, passed a trillion dollars cromnibus bill, filled with corporate welfare reform. \u00a0Then Republican leadership and&#8211; and leadership joined with Harry Reid and the Democrats to do that.<\/p>\n<p>Then leadership voted to fund Obamacare. \u00a0Then they voted to fund amnesty. \u00a0Then they voted to fund Planned Parenthood. \u00a0And then Republican leadership took the lead confirming Loretta Lynch as Attorney General. \u00a0Now Chuck, which one of those decisions is one iota different than what would happened under Harry Reid and the Democrats? \u00a0The truth of the matter is Republican leadership are the most effective Democrat leaders we&#8217;ve ever seen. \u00a0They&#8217;ve passed more Democratic priorities than Harry Reid ever could.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Alright. \u00a0So John Boehner is leaving. \u00a0Should Mitch McConnell leave?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Look, that is a question for the Republican conference to make.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You&#8217;re a member of the Republican conference.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>What I have said&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Have you called&#8211; why don&#8217;t you challenge him? \u00a0Why don&#8217;t you call for him to step down?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>What I have said repeatedly, Chuck, both publicly and privately, and what I say both publicly and privately is the same thing, is we need leaders who will honor the promises we made to the men and women who elected us.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, I go back to why&#8211; if you&#8217;re glad that John Boehner is leaving, how come you don&#8217;t call out Mitch McConnell by name?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Listen, at the end of the day&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Since he is your leader?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>At the end of the day, it depends on where the votes are in the conference. \u00a0Right now, Mitch has the votes to remain as majority leader.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m trying to figure out though how you&#8217;re gonna unite your party because let me&#8211; let me&#8211; I&#8217;m just gonna read you quotes from your fellow Republicans. \u00a0Senator Lamar Alexander said this about you. \u00a0&#8220;In kindergarten, you learn to work well together and play by the rules. \u00a0Another thing you learn in kindergarten is to respect one another.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Senator Orrin Hatch, &#8220;Squabbling and sanctimony may be tolerated in other venues or perhaps on the campaign trail but they have no place among colleagues in the US Senate.&#8221; \u00a0John McCain, &#8220;I would never contemplate going to the floor of the Senate, impugning the integrity of another senator, just not something we do here.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>This was about what you said about Mitch McConnell. \u00a0And, of course, Speaker Boehner called you a, &#8220;false prophet,&#8221; and another word that I&#8217;m not gonna say on Sunday morning television. \u00a0How do you unite this par&#8211; how do you lead a Republican party when Orrin Hatch, Lamar Alexander, John McCain, John Boehner, these are well respected men, think this lowly of you?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Listen, if&#8211; if you&#8217;re looking for a candidate who the career politicians in Washington will embrace, I&#8217;m not your guy. \u00a0Washington&#8217;s broken. \u00a0People are frustrated outta their minds. \u00a0Everyone in the Republican primary is standing up saying, &#8220;Vote for me because I will stand up and fight Washington.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Two weeks ago, we had an epic, knock down, drag out fight on exactly this.<\/p>\n<p>Millions of conservatives rose up, said, &#8220;defund Planned Parenthood.&#8221; \u00a0Again I was proud to lead that fight. \u00a0And where were the other candidates? \u00a0It&#8217;s&#8211; it was like they were in the witness protection plan. \u00a0Can you imagine how different that fight would have played out if all 11 Republican presidential candidates had descended on Washington and said in one voice, &#8220;Mitch McConnell and John Boehner, don&#8217;t send five hundred million dollars of taxpayer funds to Planned Parenthood?&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You know, there&#8217;s another way to look at this, Senator Cruz, which is you stood up on Obamacare, you stood up on Planned Parenthood, you stood up on immigration and nobody follows you.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Well, that&#8211; that&#8217;s&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I mean&#8211; I&#8217;m&#8211; I&#8217;m just saying nobody in Washington follows you.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8211; look&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You have to&#8211; if you get elected President, you gotta get somebody to follow your lead in Washington whether you like it or not.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Listen, at the end of the day, it&#8211; it&#8217;s not about Republican leadership. \u00a0And by the way in each of those fights, just about every time we&#8217;ve had a battle between me and leadership with a Republican caucus, about 1\/2 of the caucus has been with me. \u00a0About 1\/2 of the caucus has been with leadership.<\/p>\n<p>At the end of the day, if you&#8217;re looking for someone who&#8217;s running to be a member of the club, that&#8217;s not me. \u00a0You know, it&#8217;s interesting. \u00a0You were reading all the attacks. \u00a0You know, I mention in my book, my book, I quote all of the nasty things Republicans have said about me. \u00a0And, you know, in response to that, I don&#8217;t reciprocate much to the annoyance of many in the media who want me to attack Donald Trump, want me to attack Mitch McConnell, want me to attack John Boehner. \u00a0I don&#8217;t attack any of them.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, you called Mitch McConnell a liar.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Well, let&#8217;s be clear what I said.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s a&#8211; that&#8217;s a&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>And&#8211; and&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s a tough&#8211; that&#8217;s a tough thing to say on the Senate floor.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Well, let&#8217;s be very clear what I said. \u00a0I stood up and said, &#8220;Mitch McConnell made the following promise directly to me looking me in the eye, to every other Republican senator and he did it publicly. \u00a0And then just a month later, his behavior was exactly 180 degrees to the opposite.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>And this is how broken Washington is. \u00a0Listen, the fact that he told a falsehood is&#8211; is a matter of public record. \u00a0He stated it publicly; then he behaved exactly the opposite. \u00a0And Washington is so broken that they treat someone saying, &#8220;The Republican leader just did exactly the opposite of what he promised he would do,&#8221; that&#8211; that&#8211; that apparently the troublemaker is the person saying it rather than the person telling the lie. \u00a0That&#8217;s what&#8217;s broken about Washington. \u00a0When I tell you I&#8217;m gonna do somethin&#8217;, Chuck, I&#8217;m gonna do exactly what I said I would do.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Alright. \u00a0I wanna do two more things about this Washington. Is Paul Ryan a true conservative?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Oh, listen. \u00a0I&#8211; I&#8211; I like Paul Ryan. \u00a0He&#8217;s a friend of mine. \u00a0This is obviously a question that is wrapped up in the Speaker of the House&#8211; deliberations. \u00a0I have said consistently I&#8217;m gonna stay outta that.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I understand that.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m gonna leave that for the House Republicans&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>But is he a true conservative?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Oh, that&#8217;s a decision for House Republicans to make and for the American people to make.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Mark Levin who you joked should be&#8211; you said, &#8220;I want Mark Levin as speaker. \u00a0He&#8221;&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Mark Levin is definitely a true conservative.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>He&#8217;s&#8211; he&#8217;s true conservative. \u00a0You&#8217;ll say that but you won&#8217;t say Paul Ryan is. \u00a0He doesn&#8217;t think Paul Ryan is right now.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>L&#8211; let me say&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>He&#8211; he doesn&#8217;t like his stance on&#8211; on the debt limit and on TARP and things like that.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>I have said consistently throughout that the question of House leadership is a question for the House Republican conference.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I wanna move to&#8211; foreign policy, Afghanistan decision by the President. \u00a0In favor of it?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Well, listen. \u00a0It&#8217;s a recognition that&#8211; that what the President has been saying for years, that Al Qaeda is decimated was never true. \u00a0That it was political spin. \u00a0The reality is we live in an incredibly dangerous world and sadly the failures of the Obama, Clinton foreign policy have made the dangers greater.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>If you become President though, you&#8217;re gonna keep his&#8211; this policy in place of keeping those troops there in Afghanistan?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>It will depend on the mission. \u00a0I don&#8217;t believe we should be engaged in nation building. \u00a0I don&#8217;t believe we should be trying to transform foreign countries into democratic utopias, trying to turn Iraq into Switzerland. \u00a0But I do think it is the job of our military to protect this country, to hunt down and kill jihadists who would murder us.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Syria, priority, Assad outta power or ISIS?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>ISIS, ISIS, ISIS.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So basically table the Assad discussion right now?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Look, we have no business stickin&#8217; our nose in that civil war. \u00a0And there are a lotta politicians including Hillary Clinton on the left and including quite a few of the Republicans running for President on the right who want us to get in the middle of that civil war.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So you\u2019re no on the no fly zones, none of that stuff&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>L&#8211; l&#8211; look&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;stick to just ISIS? \u00a0Would you work with the Russians? \u00a0If they are helping with ISIS, would you help&#8211; would&#8211; would you work with them?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Of course, we shouldn&#8217;t be parenting with the Russians. \u00a0Look, this is a great example of the utter failure of the Obama, Clinton foreign policy. \u00a0This void in power has let Putin step in there. \u00a0There&#8217;re a couple hundred Cubans right now with a major Cuban general fighting in the Syrian civil war. \u00a0You&#8217;ve got Iran. \u00a0You&#8217;ve got General Suleimani in bed with the Russians. \u00a0So you now got Russia, Cuba and Iran all arm in arm. \u00a0And anyone who believes Russia is fighting against terrorism, I got a bridge to sell &#8217;em.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, they&#8217;re proppin&#8217; up Assad but you just said you&#8217;re okay with that &#8217;cause you said&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Look&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I mean&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t&#8211; I don&#8217;t think we should prop up Assad either. \u00a0But here&#8217;s the problem. \u00a0You have people who view foreign policy&#8211; you look at some of the Republicans, for example, who supported Hillary Clinton&#8217;s disastrous Libya policy. \u00a0Look, toppling Gaddafi, Gaddafi was a bad guy but you know what? \u00a0Libya is an absolute chaos and war zone where jihadists are battling back and forth and here&#8217;s, Chuck, the way we should answer.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>By the way, would the Middle East be more stable today if you had the strong men there?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Of course, it would. \u00a0Of course, it would. \u00a0It&#8211; it wasn&#8217;t even close.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Gaddafi, Saddam, Assad, if they&#8217;re strong men, they keep stability?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>It wasn&#8217;t even close that Libya under Gaddafi was better for US interests than the chaos now that is allowed jihadists to gain strength.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>What about Iraq under Saddam?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>It&#8211; it wasn&#8217;t&#8211; it wasn&#8217;t even close.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Do you think Iraq would be more stable today under a strong man like Saddam?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>Based on what we know now, should we have gone into Iraq? \u00a0No, of course not. \u00a0It was based on the belief that they had weapons of mass destruction that they would use against us.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You are a believer in using the debt limit for leverage. \u00a0What do you want Republican leadership to do with the debt limit?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>What I\u2019d like to see on the debt limit is Republican leaders fight for something. For Pete\u2019s sakes, anything. Now, there are a lotta reports right now that John Boehner before he steps down as speaker intends to cut a deal with Nancy Pelosi to raise the debt ceiling and defund all of Obama&#8217;s agenda&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And&#8211; and what will you do if that happens?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>For&#8211; for the next year and 1\/2. \u00a0Listen, he&#8217;s got the votes. \u00a0He&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s nothing&#8211; that&#8217;s if he&#8217;s got the votes&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>He&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Isn&#8217;t that how democracy works? \u00a0He&#8217;s got the votes?<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>But it&#8217;s not supposed&#8211; but&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I mean, this is what&#8211; it&#8211; how it works.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. TED CRUZ:<\/p>\n<p>You&#8217;re right and if he does it, he will be the most effective democratic leader in modern times.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s a more to my interview with Ted Cruz. \u00a0You can see the complete interview on our website, MeetThePressNBC.com. \u00a0Coming up, not one, but two Republicans have now said the House Benghazi Committee was politically inspired to hurt Hillary Clinton. \u00a0Is the committee discredited even before Clinton testifies this week? \u00a0We&#8217;ve got that coming up when we come back.<\/p>\n<p>* * *COMMERCIAL BREAK* * *<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And we are back. \u00a0However much Hillary Clinton may have helped herself at Tuesday&#8217;s debate, the main event this month will be her appearance on Capitol Hill before the House Benghazi Committee this Thursday. \u00a0Both sides are attempting to work the refs ahead of time. \u00a0Here&#8217;s part of an online video the Clinton campaign released in an attempt to discredit the committee. And here&#8217;s an excerpt of a highly controversial anti-Clinton ad that ran during the first Democratic presidential debate.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>COMMERCIAL VOICE:<\/p>\n<p>Dear Hillary Clinton, I&#8217;d like to ask you why you ignored calls for help in Benghazi and then four Americans were murdered. \u00a0But Mrs. Clinton, I can&#8217;t. \u00a0What difference does it make?<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;re going to hear from both sides of the aisle in just a moment on what likely will be the most important day of Hillary Clinton&#8217;s campaign so far.<\/p>\n<p>* * *COMMERCIAL BREAK* * *<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Welcome back. \u00a0With the possible exception of the debates, no moment in the campaign has been more highly anticipated than this Thursday, when Hillary Clinton testifies before the House Select Benghazi Committee. \u00a0And make no mistake, one way or the other, this is about the campaign. \u00a0Republicans say they want to get to the bottom of the attack in Benghazi in 2012 on that September 11th day, when four Americans were killed. \u00a0Democrats say the committee is a partisan effort designed to discredit Clinton by focusing just on her emails. \u00a0Either way, it could be a turning point in the race for 2016.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>I will do my best to answer their questions. \u00a0But I don&#8217;t really know what their objective is right now.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Hillary Clinton is trading one state for another.<\/p>\n<p>FEMALE REPORTER:<\/p>\n<p>Hillary&#8217;s reaction to the Benghazi ad?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Not since President Gerald Ford defended his pardon of Richard Nixon&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>GERALD FORD:<\/p>\n<p>The purpose was to change our national focus.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;has an active presidential candidate had so much on the line in an appearance before Congress. \u00a0But Clinton can now quote House Republicans when she tries to argue that questions about her handling of the 2012 Benghazi attack that left four Americans dead are now nothing more than a political witch hunt.<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>This whole effort was set up for political partisan purposes, we now know, to politically, in a partisan way, go after me. \u00a0Basically, an arm of the Republican National Committee, a partisan arm of the Republican National Committee.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>It was House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy who gave Clinton her first assist last month.<\/p>\n<p>REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY:<\/p>\n<p>Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? \u00a0But we put together a Benghazi Special Committee, a select committee. \u00a0What are her numbers today? \u00a0Her numbers are dropping.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>This week, an assist from another Republican lawmaker.<\/p>\n<p>REP. RICHARD HANNA:<\/p>\n<p>This may not be politically correct, but I think that there is a big part of this investigation that was designed to go after people and an individual, Hillary Clinton.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>The committee&#8217;s Republican chairman, Trey Gowdy, tried to clean up this mess with a 279-word statement, saying that, quote, &#8220;Commentators and sometimes even members of your own conference offer thoughts on matters on which they are not familiar.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>So don&#8217;t focus on the words that people who are not on the committee use, focus on the actions of those of us who have been on the committee.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>On top of all that, a former Republican committee staffer, Air Force Reserve Major Bradley Podliska, is adding fuel to the fire, complaining he was fired from the committee after the investigation shifted its focus to Clinton.<\/p>\n<p>BRADLEY PODLISKA:<\/p>\n<p>I was fired for trying to conduct an objective, nonpartisan, thorough investigation.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>A statement from the committee calls those claims transparently false, stating that he was terminated for cause. \u00a0Now the committee, which House Speaker John Boehner never wanted&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>JOHN BOEHNER:<\/p>\n<p>And I see no reason to break up all the work that&#8217;s been done, and to take months and months and months to create some select committee.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;but agreed to under duress to pacify conservatives, is itself under scrutiny. \u00a0I&#8217;m joined now by two members of the Benghazi committee, Republican Mike Pompeo of Kansas and Democrat Adam Schiff of California. \u00a0Welcome to both of you, to <em>Meet the Press<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Good to with you.<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Congressman Pompeo, I want to get you to respond. \u00a0You know, look, it&#8217;s been a tough week, a tough ten days for the credibility of your committee, thanks to the McCarthy statements, the Hanna statements on this other&#8211; do you feel as if the committee&#8217;s credibility is now under question?<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Chuck, this isn&#8217;t about the committee, this is about the American people. \u00a0We&#8217;ve been working since May of 2014 to get them the answers. \u00a0There&#8217;s four Americans that were killed and our first ambassador murdered since 1979. \u00a0This week, we&#8217;re going to speak with former Secretary Clinton, we&#8217;ve conducted dozens and dozens of interviews, we will ask her the same kind of fact-centric questions that we&#8217;ve asked the other witnesses. \u00a0We have an obligation to hold folks accountable and make sure that we reduce the risk that something like this could ever possibly happen again.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I guess one of the questions I have is what&#8217;s taking so long? \u00a0And I say this because the Benghazi Committee is now longer than Watergate, longer than Iran-Contra, longer than the look into other major events. \u00a0I think we have a whole thing on screen here about how many different select committee took less time, including the Warren Commission. \u00a0Why has this taken so long?<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>You mentioned Watergate, Mr. Schiff actually compared this committee to Watergate in a <em>New York Times<\/em> op-ed. \u00a0But this is worse in some ways. \u00a0I think Secretary Clinton tried to hide every one of her emails. \u00a0She destroyed 30,000 of them. \u00a0And now we have an F.B.I. investigation of those very emails.<\/p>\n<p>What&#8217;s taken us so long is that the Democrats on the committee and this administration have played hide the ball and have denied us records that the American people deserve and that our committee needs to complete our investigation. \u00a0We would&#8217;ve been happy to move more quickly, but we met with obstruction all along the way.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>All right. \u00a0Before I get to Congressman Schiff, one more question for you. \u00a0You talk at all the different witnesses you&#8217;ve called. \u00a0Why haven&#8217;t you called the following witnesses: \u00a0General Carter Ham, who led U.S. African command at that time, Samantha Power, who was in the White House now an ambassador to the UN, you could&#8217;ve called her. \u00a0The former C.I.A. director at the time, General Petraeus, he hasn&#8217;t been called. \u00a0Former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta wasn&#8217;t called. \u00a0Why haven&#8217;t these people been called before your committee if this is about Benghazi? \u00a0They were all there at the time.<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Chuck, we&#8217;re not done. \u00a0You may think this investigation ends on Thursday, but let me assure you that it does not. \u00a0We began in May, and we are going to continue. \u00a0On Thursday, it&#8217;s just one more step along the way. \u00a0We may well call many of the folks that you identified there. \u00a0We still have many witnesses, many documents that we haven&#8217;t seen.<\/p>\n<p>As recently as last Thursday, we&#8217;ve received Christopher Stevens&#8217; emails. \u00a0How on earth could any of the other committees have completed their work properly without access to the senior person on the ground\u2019s emails? \u00a0We now have them. \u00a0No thanks to the Democrats on the committee who opposed us all along the way.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Congressman Schiff, when you first joined the committee, you said you were willing to look at this in the big picture, take this very seriously. \u00a0You have accused the Republicans of not taking it seriously. \u00a0But it&#8217;s in your power. \u00a0If you don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re doing it seriously, why haven&#8217;t you come up with a witness list? \u00a0Why haven&#8217;t you decided, &#8220;You know what, I want to do my own fact finding. \u00a0I don&#8217;t like what they&#8217;re doing.&#8221; \u00a0But it&#8217;s in your power to, if you think the investigation needs to go in a more serious direction, you can do it. \u00a0And you haven&#8217;t done it.<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>No, Chuck, I have, and I&#8217;ve tried. \u00a0In fact, the first two hearings this committee had were hearings I proposed to look at the ARB recommendations and how they&#8217;re going to implement them. \u00a0I requested ways that we could speed up the document production, which were rejected. \u00a0We requested witnesses to come before the committee. \u00a0And you know what they did? \u00a0They interviewed these witnesses without even telling us.<\/p>\n<p>Because ultimately when they did interview the witnesses, they didn&#8217;t corroborate the Republican conspiracy theories. \u00a0The reason, the answer to your question Chuck, about why we haven&#8217;t brought in a defense secretary as they said they would, why we haven&#8217;t brought in a C.I.A. director, why we haven&#8217;t brought in any of these witnesses for a hearing, is because they&#8217;re not running for president. \u00a0When Richard Hanna&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>But couldn&#8217;t you have asked for this?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>We could ask for it, but&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Don\u2019t you have subpoena power?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>No, we don&#8217;t.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>We don&#8217;t. \u00a0In fact&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And you can&#8217;t bring these people in? \u00a0You can&#8217;t invite them yourself?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>We can&#8217;t set up a hearing, we can&#8217;t issue a subpoena. \u00a0We can&#8217;t even vote on subpoenas. \u00a0Chuck, we asked the Republicans at the beginning, &#8220;Let&#8217;s establish rules for the committee. \u00a0Let&#8217;s establish rules so we can vote on subpoenas. You could even hold the majority vote.\u201d \u00a0Whatever. \u00a0They wouldn&#8217;t even establish rules. \u00a0And why? \u00a0They want to run this the way they want it. \u00a0They want to be able to go after Secretary Clinton.<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Chuck&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Hang on. But aren&#8217;t they justified in the fact that if it wasn&#8217;t for the Benghazi Committee, we wouldn&#8217;t have known about this private server. \u00a0We wouldn&#8217;t have known about these emails. \u00a0And it does look like somebody is at least trying to make it harder to get information. \u00a0Isn&#8217;t that the point?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>No, the point is, what do we know about Benghazi that we didn&#8217;t know when this investigation started. \u00a0What can we tell the families, what can we tell the American people about these core conspiracy allegations, that there was a stand-down order, or that there was gun running, or that the secretary interfered with security. \u00a0And the fact is, Chuck, after 17 months, $4.5 million, we have nothing new to tell the families, apart from that there was a private e-mail server.<\/p>\n<p>That doesn&#8217;t tell us anything about Benghazi. \u00a0And let me say this too. \u00a0When Richard Hanna talks about what the Republican conference views this investigation, he can speak to the view of the conference. \u00a0But when Kevin McCarthy, as part of the leadership talks about the motivation to go after Clinton, he is part of the leadership. \u00a0He is in the room when the committee is formed.<\/p>\n<p>And finally, it&#8217;s not just what these people outside the committee are saying. \u00a0But when a Republican whistleblower is saying, &#8220;This is how they&#8217;re executing a strategy to go after Clinton,&#8221; and we see that execution, when these hearings that you mentioned, with the defense secretary, with the C.I.A. director, with Samantha Power, they&#8217;re all canceled, when the only hearing we have is with Secretary Clinton, it shows that the committee&#8217;s doing exactly what the Republicans are saying.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Congressman, I know you wanted to chime in, go ahead. \u00a0And then I want to have Ron Fournier ask you guys a question from <em>The National Journal<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Chuck, facts matter. \u00a0You&#8217;ll see that on Thursday. \u00a0What Mr. Schiff said is just false. \u00a0The Democrats haven&#8217;t asked for a single witness. \u00a0I&#8217;d ask him to name the witness that he came to us or wrote us about and asked for that witness. \u00a0Not a single interview has been conducted without Democrats or Democrat staff participating. \u00a0And with respect to the server&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s just not true, Mike.<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;the F.B.I. will sort out the server. \u00a0We&#8217;ll see if she violated the Espionage Act. \u00a0Our task is to solve the riddle of the four Americans who were killed<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>All right. Ron.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Congressman Pompeo, your party promised to run&#8211; a nonpartisan, non-witch hunt campaign. \u00a0That&#8217;s been proven to be false. \u00a0Congressman Schiff, your party, your candidate promised us that what she did with her emails was above board and didn&#8217;t jeopardize or even potentially compromise U.S. secrets. \u00a0We know that is false. \u00a0What is either party going to be able to do, or going to try to do to try to restore some modicum of credibility to a system that&#8217;s hemorrhaging trust? \u00a0Both your parties have been lying to us.<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>You know, I think the reality is, with respect to this select committee, it&#8217;s too late. \u00a0There&#8217;s too much water under the bridge.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>No, with respect to Secretary Clinton and you and your party, when are you stop pretending that what she did was above board? \u00a0And when are you going to stop pretending that she did not compromise state secrets?&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>The secretary has been the first to admit that the use of a private server was a mistake.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Do you think it was above board or do you think it was a violation?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>And that is the job of the Republican National Committee, to go after her. \u00a0And the Democratic party&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m not asking&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;they can go after Jeb Bush for his use of a personal server. \u00a0That&#8217;s not our job on attacking&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Do you think her e-mail server violated federal policy? \u00a0\u00a0Yes or no?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>I think what she did was lawful at the time, but it was a mistake.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Was it against federal rules? \u00a0It clearly was to anybody reading the rules. \u00a0Was it to you?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>The rules allows her to use a private server, as long as she preserved her emails, which she did. \u00a0Was it desirable? \u00a0No. \u00a0It wasn&#8217;t. \u00a0And I think she&#8217;s recognized that.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>But what about the witch hunt? \u00a0You promised it would not be a partisan committee, but obviously, your party&#8217;s admitting that it was a partisan.<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Ron, I couldn&#8217;t disagree with you more. \u00a0I think folks will see that on Thursday. \u00a0And I think they&#8217;ll see it in the final report as well. \u00a0They will see that Chairman Gowdy and our committee has run a fact-centric effort to do the mission, to hold someone accountable for what happened on September 11, 2012.<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>But Congressmen, how long before the final report? \u00a0Is it going to be in the middle of 2016? \u00a0Is it going to be after the election?<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s a great question, Andrea. \u00a0Maybe Mr. Schiff can answer that for you. We&#8217;ll complete our task as soon as&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>So let me just follow up here&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>The reason I don&#8217;t answer that question, Andrea, \u00a0is that we don&#8217;t know what we&#8217;re looking for. \u00a0We can&#8217;t put an end date on it, because we don&#8217;t know what this committee&#8217;s supposed to look for, apart from damning Hillary Clinton, it has no reason for existing.<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>But let&#8217;s just say, if the reason for existence is to find out did Hillary Clinton make a grievous error in not following up security complaints, how could she tell the various investigating committees that that was below her, that it never reached her level? \u00a0That could be a legitimate reason. \u00a0But why then do you call Sid Blumenthal and Huma Abedin and all of these other personal aides and non-aides, why have you focused so much on emails and not on the central question of why was the security failure at that consulate?<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Well, we have focused on the central failure. \u00a0We have focused on the security issues. \u00a0And we will continue, you&#8217;ll see lots of questions about that on Thursday. \u00a0But let me speak to Mr. Blumenthal. \u00a0Because directly to the security issue, we see now that former Secretary Clinton relied on Mr. Blumenthal for most of her intelligence. \u00a0That if she wants to rely&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>That is factually not true.<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>No it is absolutely true.<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>Relied on Mr. Blumenthal for most of her intelligence?<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Ms. Mitchell, take a look at the email trails and you will see&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s just&#8211; I cover the State Department. \u00a0That is just factually not correct.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Since this is about Benghazi and the poor lives that were lost under Hillary Clinton&#8217;s watch, what should she have done to prevent the loss of those four lives? \u00a0What should she have done before and when they actually were threatened, should she have done more?<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Let me talk to that before. \u00a0The ARB from Tanzania made very clear that the secretary of State was supposed to personally review security at high-threat areas. \u00a0That is, not hand it down to a deputy, or an under secretary, or anyone else. \u00a0That ARB in the late 1990s said that the secretary of State, himself or herself, was supposed to take responsibility and personally review those security plans. \u00a0It appears that she did not do that. \u00a0And so if you ask what should she have done, that would be the area to start&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s look at the ARB on Benghazi, not the one that took place 20 years ago. \u00a0The ARB on Benghazi, a nonpartisan investigation, decided that the chain of command in terms of security at the embassies and the consulate facilities, did not rise to the secretary of State, that the secretary of State was not involved in the micromanagement of security at that facility&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>Shouldn&#8217;t she have been? \u00a0Why wasn&#8217;t she?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t know that we want the secretary of State making security decisions at particular facilities around the world. \u00a0That&#8217;s a big job for Secretary of State, and I don&#8217;t know that we want her micromanaging security.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Well if not that&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>I do want to say this&#8211; Well, they are responsible overall, and the secretary of State has said that she is responsible overall. \u00a0But let me address the Blumenthal&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Are you going to ask Hillary Clinton why she didn\u2019t send help that night, Congressman?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>This is very important because the way this committee has operated is by leak of damaging information with only one objective. \u00a0And that is, all the leaks have a common denominator. \u00a0All of the leaks are designed to hurt Secretary Clinton. \u00a0They generate a new story as recently as the one about Mr. Blumenthal. \u00a0And then within the last 24 to 48 hours, the C.I.A. informs us that notwithstanding the chairman&#8217;s 13-page letter alleging a damaging leak of the C.I.A. source, the C.I.A. has now informed us there was nothing classified in this last tranche&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Do you want to name that source this morning on air? Do you want to name that source this morning on air?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>The C.I.A. has said that that source&#8217;s name is not classified.<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO<\/p>\n<p>Name him. Put the name on national TV this morning Mr. Schiff.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m going to pause it there. \u00a0Before I let you go, Congressman Pompeo, you have said you will run for speaker if Paul Ryan does not. \u00a0Let me ask you this. \u00a0Ted Cruz wouldn&#8217;t call Paul Ryan a true conservative. \u00a0Will you?<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Absolutely. \u00a0Paul Ryan is a solid conservative.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And if he runs, you&#8217;ll support him?<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s correct.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Congressman Pompeo, Congressman Schiff, you guys are going to become even more famous to the American public. \u00a0On Thursday, we will look forward to what I&#8217;m guessing is going to be a spirited day. \u00a0Thank you both for being on.<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>Thank you, Chuck.<\/p>\n<p>REP. ADAM SCHIFF:<\/p>\n<p>Thanks, Chuck.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Back in a moment, does Joe Biden need to get in now, or does he actually have more time to wait? \u00a0And later, was that Bernie Sanders or Larry David on <em>SNL<\/em> last night?<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>JON RUDNITSKI:<\/p>\n<p>How are you?<\/p>\n<p>LARRY DAVID:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m good. \u00a0I&#8217;m hungry, but I&#8217;m good. \u00a0And now, if you don&#8217;t mind, I&#8217;m going to dial it right up to a ten.<\/p>\n<p>JON RUDNITSKI:<\/p>\n<p>Go right ahead.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Welcome back. \u00a0It is NerdScreen time. \u00a0And we decided to do a little something different here with NerdScreen, no doubt. \u00a0We wanted to not just tell you how different the two parties are, we wanted to show you how different they are by looking at the first two debates and putting together a couple of word clouds.<\/p>\n<p>This is the first Republican debate. \u00a0Look at the most-mentioned items and issues. \u00a0President Obama and Hillary Clinton, the dominant personalities. \u00a0But look at the issues: \u00a0Iran, ISIS mentioned more than 20 times during that debate. \u00a0Immigration, the border, a combined 46 times at the debate. \u00a0You see other stuff, taxes got a lot of mention there. \u00a0A little bit on small business, Iraq, a tiny bit.<\/p>\n<p>But those were the main issues, even Planned Parenthood. \u00a0But this is what the Republican debate was about. \u00a0A lot of foreign policy, a lot about Obama and Clinton. \u00a0Now, let&#8217;s take a look at the Democrats. \u00a0A much different story here. \u00a0The dominant, look at this, guns. \u00a0The dominant issue. \u00a0Then Wall Street, President Obama being spoken about in glowing terms. \u00a0Syria being the foreign policy issue that got the most talked about. \u00a0Iran barely got mentioned. \u00a0Immigration just a little bit.<\/p>\n<p>But wow, what a difference between the two parties when you look at this. \u00a0The Democrats, much more of a domestic focus, guns, and Wall Street; the Republicans, a lot more of an international focus combined with immigration. \u00a0And here&#8217;s why. \u00a0Guess what? \u00a0They&#8217;re both talking to primary voters right now. \u00a0They&#8217;re not talking to each other. \u00a0Coming up, the race for the White House. \u00a0Does Joe Biden have to get in soon, or has he really been running for president all along?<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Welcome back, the conventional wisdom is that Hillary Clinton&#8217;s strong debate performance Tuesday night blocked the Vice President, Joe Biden, from getting in the race. \u00a0Let&#8217;s also keep in mind that that so-called conventional wisdom has been a lot more conventional, and not so wise this campaign season.<\/p>\n<p>Enter Gabe Sherman of <em>New York Magazine<\/em> who writes that Joe Biden&#8217;s already running. \u00a0&#8220;In reality, Biden is choosing what kind of campaign to run: \u00a0an active one, in which he positions himself as a Clinton alternative, or a passive one that presents him as an alternative to Bernie Sanders or any of the other three non-\u00adcandidates who were onstage in Las Vegas.&#8221; \u00a0Let&#8217;s bring in the panel. \u00a0Amy Walter of <em>The Cook Political Report<\/em>, Alex Castellanos, a long-time Republican operative with some ties to the Bush family. \u00a0Are you with Jeb or not with Jeb or are you out if it?<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m like the Hard Rock Caf\u00e9, love all, serve all. Very Republican.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And Ron Fournier of course from <em>National Journal<\/em>, and my good friend Andrea Mitchell of NBC News. \u00a0Amy, let me start with you. \u00a0Joe Biden certainly believes he&#8217;s got more time. \u00a0Does he?<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTER:<\/p>\n<p>Joe Biden has a couple of things working against him. \u00a0The most important are filing deadlines right? \u00a0And the bottom line is, he can wait as long as he would like to. \u00a0But the states aren&#8217;t going to wait for him. \u00a0By the end of December, 15 states will have their filing deadlines closed.<\/p>\n<p>By the end of January, 30 states, half of the delegates are off the table. \u00a0That doesn&#8217;t change. \u00a0To me, the toughest question is really the question, can you run a passive aggressive campaign for president? \u00a0Which I don&#8217;t think you can. \u00a0And he believes, I think, the theory is that he wants to be in the race, but he doesn&#8217;t want to do what he needs to do to win, which is to say this: \u00a0&#8220;Hillary Clinton, I like you, Democrats like you, but you can&#8217;t win a general election, you have too much baggage, go with me.&#8221; \u00a0He won&#8217;t say that.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>He won&#8217;t say that. \u00a0Alex?<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>I think Hillary Clinton has some serious problems. \u00a0Not in the Democratic primary. \u00a0They love her, right? \u00a0And there&#8217;s very little room there. \u00a0But in a general election, she&#8217;s got trouble. \u00a0The Republican side is a dumpster fire right now, right?<\/p>\n<p>And most of those Republicans still beat Hillary Clinton when Joe Biden runs ahead of those Republicans. \u00a0Joe Biden doesn&#8217;t have Hillary&#8217;s authenticity problems. \u00a0And Hillary&#8217;s on the wrong end of an F.B.I. investigation. \u00a0Those are serious things. \u00a0Somebody ought to get in there in case it collapses&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>The \u201cin case of emergency\u201d&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>Now I&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s what I see<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD<\/p>\n<p>\u201cin case of emergency\u201d&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>pull this chord.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>Now I\u2019m with&#8211; I&#8217;m with Gabe Sherman and the passive-aggressive argument right now, because the minute he declares, he has to start spending $43,000 an hour on Air Force Two just to go to Iowa. \u00a0Now, one of the arguments is, you&#8217;re going to lose Iowa anyway, you know, to Bernie, let&#8217;s say. \u00a0You could lose New Hampshire to Bernie or Hillary. \u00a0Why don&#8217;t you wait till South Carolina?<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s what his South Carolina supporters are saying. \u00a0That&#8217;s a December 4th filing deadline. \u00a0So wait. \u00a0Don&#8217;t spend the big bucks, because you have all this apparatus around you. \u00a0And you&#8217;ve got time. \u00a0You&#8217;ve got name recognition. \u00a0And what we know is that he personally authorized that memo.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Let me read that memo.<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>That memo&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Let me read that memo&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>That came from Joe Biden&#8217;s&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Don\u2019t&#8211; It is written by Ted Kaufman, the former senator, the long-time aide to Joe Biden. \u00a0But why don&#8217;t you view this, Ron Fournier, as Joe Biden writing it?<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>And he did.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;If he runs, he will run,&#8221; I will run, &#8220;because of his burning conviction that we need to fundamentally change the balance in our economy and the political structure to restore the ability of the middle class to get ahead. \u00a0If he decides to run, we will need each and every one of you yesterday.\u201d \u00a0Political structure. \u00a0I&#8217;ve always thought that that is Biden&#8217;s potential great strength. \u00a0Hey, I&#8217;ve been here forever, I know how to work across the aisle.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, but the problem for Biden though is the scenario you&#8217;re laying on Amy really doesn&#8217;t hold up. \u00a0It&#8217;s hard to make the argument that Hillary Clinton could not win the presidency. \u00a0She certainly, it&#8217;s hard to make the argument that she can&#8217;t win the nomination given the show on your side. \u00a0It&#8217;s hard to say that she couldn&#8217;t&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;I think he call it a \u201cdumpster fire.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>A dumpster fire. \u00a0I was going to say something else. \u00a0So right now, unless something changes, it&#8217;s hard to make an argument. \u00a0And you don&#8217;t have to be a sitting vice president you don&#8217;t have to be in the race to be the rip-cord candidate. \u00a0So I&#8217;ve always thought, number one, that Biden has been trying to talk himself into the race from the very beginning. \u00a0Number two, it&#8217;s not the debate that he&#8217;s waiting for, it&#8217;s not Benghazi hearings he&#8217;s been waiting for, it&#8217;s not even filing deadlines.<\/p>\n<p>Because by the way, a party can change filing deadlines. \u00a0It&#8217;s the F.B.I. \u00a0Now, the problem for this is he&#8217;s waiting for, I think, an F.B.I. investigation that for all we know, will turn up nothing. \u00a0For all we know, won&#8217;t even turn up anything until it&#8217;s too late, might not turn up anything ever. \u00a0And I think that&#8217;s the problem, is unless something really changes for Hillary Clinton, she&#8217;s certainly going to win the nomination, or pretty certainly. \u00a0And it&#8217;s hard to argue that she could not win the presidency&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTER:<\/p>\n<p>Unless he puts up the polls in there, what she says is, &#8220;If we do the head-to-head polls, and we look at the numbers, Joe Biden, versus all the candidates,&#8221; I realize it&#8217;s early&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>By the way, backup quarterbacks on bad football teams are always really positive.<\/p>\n<p>(OVERTALK)<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>With Joe Biden, with his strong record on women&#8217;s issues, with violence against women, you know, take the Anita Hill hearing out of it.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Hard to do that though right?&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;his incredible support for those of us with breast cancer, and all of the other things that he and Dr. Jill Biden have done, he does not want to be blamed as the person who stopped the first credible woman from getting to the White House.<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>But, the first credible woman may stop herself from being there&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s another issue.<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;and here&#8217;s Joe Biden&#8217;s story, loyal to the first black president of the United States for eight tough years, can energize the Democratic base in a way Hillary can&#8217;t. \u00a0Authentic middle-class guy, can appeal to Reagan Democrats.<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>Can&#8217;t run away from the trade issue&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>(OVERTALK)<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTER:<\/p>\n<p>How do you do that in a democratic primary?&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, here we go, alright. \u00a0Let&#8217;s turn to what Alex called the dumpster fire. \u00a0You are going to own that phrase for a while. \u00a0Donald Trump obviously put out this tweet about blaming&#8211; actually, did he say, is he blaming George W. Bush for 9\/11, or does he simply state a fact, Amy Walter?<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTER:<\/p>\n<p>He said&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;George W. Bush was president during 9\/11.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTER:<\/p>\n<p>Right, that is what he said.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Was it an insult or not?<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>Of course it was. It was meant to provoke.<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTER:<\/p>\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And guess what?<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>Another alpha dog move, I can slap these guys around, and they may hit me back a little bit, but I don&#8217;t care.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, you said it meant to provoke, Jeb Bush provoked. \u00a0Here&#8217;s an ad they put out obviously in time for us to play it.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>FEMALE REPORTER:<\/p>\n<p>He has said publicly that he watches cable news and that&#8217;s one of the ways that he bones up on our national security.<\/p>\n<p>COMMERCIAL VOICE:<\/p>\n<p>Trump says he, quote, &#8220;Always felt that I was in the military, despite never serving in the military and draft deferments during Vietnam.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s nobody bigger or better at the military than I am.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Ron Fournier, why does Jeb Bush get fired up and show fire only when his brother&#8217;s attacked?<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Because it&#8217;s his brother and he&#8217;s a very loyal guy. \u00a0I think the interesting thing about Jeb Bush, you talk about strategic frame, their strategic frame if you talk the them about how they see themselves winning the presidency and taking on Trump, they say, the first thing out of their mouth is, &#8220;Well, there&#8217;s no way Donald Trump can win the nomination.&#8221; \u00a0Well, when that&#8217;s your strategic frame, you&#8217;re really hurting. \u00a0Because you know what, Donald Trump could win the nomination.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You better have two battle plans.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>And your plan A better be, &#8220;How do I get rid of Donald Trump and Carson and then win the establishment primary.&#8221; \u00a0They&#8217;re not thinking that broadly.<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>Your strategy shouldn&#8217;t be to predict the apocalypse. \u00a0Your strategy shouldn&#8217;t be &#8220;The world&#8217;s going to end, that Carson somehow is going to collapse, that Trump is somehow going to falter&#8221; \u00a0You have to have a strategy to win. \u00a0Ted Cruz has that apocalypse strategy, but so does Jeb Bush right now and so does Rubio, so does every other Republican.<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTER:<\/p>\n<p>Well, it&#8217;s the passive-aggressive thing though too. \u00a0Everybody in this race, except for Donald Trump, is being passive and waiting for somebody to collapse. \u00a0Rubio, waiting for that collapse of Bush to come in. \u00a0Ted Cruz, waiting for Carson, waiting for Trump. \u00a0Nobody is making that play right now to say, &#8220;I&#8217;m the stronger candidate.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>The truth is, there is not room in this game for both Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio. \u00a0So it&#8217;s going to be one or the other. \u00a0Alex, you know that better than anyone coming from Florida. \u00a0And Rubio has a lot of the qualities that Jeb Bush does not show on the campaign trail. \u00a0He hasn&#8217;t fired up, you know, yet. \u00a0But when you see him speak, he&#8217;s got that sort of aggressive and young fire and Jeb Bush isn&#8217;t showing it.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>But they think all they&#8217;ve got to do is beat Rubio and Kasich. \u00a0Well, they&#8217;ve got to beat Trump and Carson too.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I think this is the part of this, that&#8217;s right. \u00a0And okay, we can make a case for that FEC report, that Donald Trump is not showing the signs of a real campaign. \u00a0But Alex, Ben Carson&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s a tough case to make<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Are they both going to falter?<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t see how. \u00a0You know, Ben Carson is kind of a moral candidacy. \u00a0Even when you think he can&#8217;t win, voters support him because he&#8217;s going to make the country better. \u00a0He&#8217;s got money. \u00a0He&#8217;s got lots of money. \u00a0And you have&#8211; \u00a0if you&#8217;re a voter, you have a purpose with your vote for Ben Carson all the way through&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>But do you know what their similarity is?<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>I think he blocks Ted Cruz.<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>The similarity is, I interviewed Ben Carson and he talked about the Holocaust historically inaccurate. \u00a0I mean, beyond inaccurate. \u00a0Yet it doesn&#8217;t matter what he says, it doesn&#8217;t matter what Donald Trump says. \u00a0The people, the voters at least, or the people coming to these rallies, don&#8217;t seem to mind.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Because a lot of his voters predate the campaign. \u00a0They go back to he&#8217;s a hero in the medical community, his books were big sellers&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And they have a personal attachment, right Alex?<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>Yes. \u00a0They have a personal attachment&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Nobody else does, right?<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>Nobody else.<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>So let&#8217;s say that in Iowa, it&#8217;s either Carson or Trump, and the Republican establishment runs to New Hampshire here on fire, who do they rally around then for the other side of the equation? \u00a0Right now, it&#8217;s a tossup. \u00a0Who has the strength to compete with those guys? \u00a0Right now, who&#8217;s demonstrating strength? \u00a0Rubio is, Fiorina is, Jeb Bush has, as governor, we haven&#8217;t seen in the campaign.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>We shall see. \u00a0I&#8217;m going to pause it there. \u00a0We&#8217;re going to have more of this in a few minutes. \u00a0Back in 45 seconds with the endgame segment and President Obama&#8217;s reversal on Afghanistan, as America&#8217;s longest war will drive on for a third presidency.<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s End Game time and let\u2019s start with America\u2019s longest war and President Obama\u2019s decision to reverse course and keep American troops in Afghanistan for at least a 15th year. It\u2019s yet another position change on Afghanistan from a president who himself said he was elected on the promise of ending both wars.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>PRESIDENT OBAMA:<\/p>\n<p>I will end this war in Iraq responsibly and finish the fight against Al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan.<\/p>\n<p>I have determined that it is in our vital national interest to send an additional 30,000 troops to Afghanistan. After 18 months our troops will begin to come home.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ve blunted the Taliban\u2019s momentum in Afghanistan and in 2014 our longest war will be over.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve decided to maintain our current posture of 98,000 troops in Afghanistan through most of next year, 2016.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s bring in the panel. Andrea Mitchell, President Obama is learning what Alexander the Great learned.<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>Nobody survives. No empire survives. Look at the Russians in Afghanistan. This is not winnable. President Ghani has not even complained about the murderous attack on Kunduz. And has no support outside of his immediate area. He has not been heard from. He is viewed in Afghanistan as an American implant. There is no leadership there.<\/p>\n<p>The Taliban has not been pushed back. There were supposed to be negotiations with the Taliban. That won\u2019t happen because we didn\u2019t even know when Mullah Omar died. Our intelligence is incredibly faulty, which probably led to the Kunduz attack on the hospital. And this is just a nightmare.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>By the way, we were talking about Joe Biden earlier. Ron, Joe Biden is the guy who said they&#8211; we probably ought to partition Iraq. Joe Biden is the guy that said, small footprint go counterterrorism. And everybody around him mocked him. Boy, Joe Biden is looking a lot more prescient about Iraq and Afghanistan than any single person, including Hillary Clinton.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>Right, this is one place he can put himself awfully close to Obama. What strikes me about that is I really believe President Obama really intended to change our course in Iraq and Afghanistan and that was not a phony promise. Just like how I think he believed&#8211; he came here really thinking he would change the culture of Washington. He didn\u2019t do either and I saw that as the last nail in the \u2018hope and change\u2019 coffin.<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>This tells us a lot about the race though and what this race is really about. George W. Bush, the critique was he was too aggressive, reckless male aggression. So we pushed the pendulum the other day to Barack Obama, soft power, dialogue, retreat a little bit from the world. Guess what, the world seems to be coming apart at home and abroad. What do we want again? Strength. Who does that help? Well that\u2019s actually one of Hillary Clinton\u2019s assets. She is tough. Who does that help on the Republican side? Our bad boyfriend Donald Trump.<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTERS:<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>No what did you write today? The bad biker&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>He\u2019s the bad biker boyfriend who abuses us, but we stick with him because there are scarier people out there like that, we need someone like that to protect us from and we don\u2019t find that strength anywhere else.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So Amy, a Hell\u2019s Angels candidate?<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTERS:<\/p>\n<p>Yes, I have said that he&#8211; he is the bad boyfriend that you don\u2019t want to take home to your parents right? \u00a0You like to date him because he\u2019s saying to your parents, \u2018uh, uh, uh, I\u2019m not\u2019&#8211; right? But will you bring him home at the end of the day?<\/p>\n<p>But look, even on the Republican side there\u2019s not a consensus about what to do either. If there were a Republican message that said, \u201che\u2019s done it wrong, here\u2019s what we do instead,\u201d that\u2019s what Democrats had going for them in the 2007 and 8 era, which was \u201cwe\u2019re not going to do anything like George Bush did.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>But now, it\u2019s well we\u2019re gonna do&#8211; you heard Ted Cruz, we\u2019re going to do a bit of this foreign policy, a little bit of that&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Cruz v Rubio would be a tremendous foreign policy debate. Rubio, intervention. Cruz, isolation. It\u2019s a little&#8211;I\u2019m being a little&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTERS:<\/p>\n<p>No, but its&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;over the line in the description, but right?<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>I was really struck with your interview with Cruz about how isolationist he is.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>More than I think people thought.<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>Right. Compared to the Herman Cain wing of the party.<\/p>\n<p>RON FOURNIER:<\/p>\n<p>I think he\u2019s got his eyes on Rand Paul\u2019s voters.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s absolutely&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>Smart.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I think Rand Paul is looking for those voters. Before we go, before we go <em>Saturday Night Live<\/em> came through with the impersonation we\u2019ve all been waiting for for months. Larry David as Bernie Sanders. Here was last night\u2019s cold open from <em>Saturday Night Live<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>JON RUDNITSKI:<\/p>\n<p>What is your position on the big banks?<\/p>\n<p>LARRY DAVID:<\/p>\n<p>Eh. Not a fan of the banks. They trample on the middle class, they control Washington, and why do they chain all their pens to the desks? Who&#8217;s trying to steal a pen from a bank? Makes no sense! That&#8217;s why you got to break up the banks into little pieces and then flush the pieces down the toilet so you can never put the banks back together.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You know, Amy, what I love about&#8211; By the way, when you\u2019re the star of the spoof, doesn\u2019t that mean Sanders won the debate and not Clinton?<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTER:<\/p>\n<p>Maybe that\u2019s absolutely true. I just wonder, are we sure that wasn\u2019t Larry David actually at the debate?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s Bernie Sanders!<\/p>\n<p>AMY WALTER:<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s Bernie Sanders!<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>But, you know, that\u2019s the soul of the Democratic Party. The Democratic Party is not just looking for their candidate, but they found their campaign. It is the campaign against the elite.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>He is the passion. You said that Democrats&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>&#8212; income inequality.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;love Hillary Clinton. I disagree. I think they lust for Bernie Sanders.<\/p>\n<p>ALEX CASTELLANOS:<\/p>\n<p>They do.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I think they\u2019ll go marry, and bring home to mom and dad, Hillary.<\/p>\n<p>ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/p>\n<p>He\u2019s got the college campuses. He\u2019s got the millennials. What he doesn\u2019t have is a broad enough base.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Alright. We\u2019re going to leave it there. We\u2019ll be back next week, because if it\u2019s Sunday, it\u2019s <em>Meet the Press<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>**END TRANSCRIPT**<\/p>\n<p><strong>For more information, please contact<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Olivia Petersen<\/p>\n<p>NBC News<\/p>\n<p>202-885-4159<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"mailto:olivia.petersen@nbcuni.com\">olivia.petersen@nbcuni.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>MEET THE PRESS<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/media.ne.cision.com\/l\/ntlfdujq\/www.nbcnews.com\/meet-the-press\">\u201cMeet the Press\u201d<\/a> is where newsmakers come to make news \u2014 setting the political agenda and spotlighting the impact Washington decision-making has on people across the country. \u201cMeet the Press\u201d reaches more than 3 million people every Sunday through its broadcasts and millions more through NBCNews.com, the #TweetThePress interview series, Flipboard, and social media platforms.\u00a0 Chuck Todd is the moderator of &#8220;Meet the Press&#8221; and John Reiss is the executive producer.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Sen. Ted Cruz tells Todd exclusively: \u201cDonald [Trump\u2019s] campaign has been immensely beneficial for our campaign\u201d Cruz: GOP leadership is \u201cmaking it easier for Obama and Reid to add trillions in debt\u201d Rep. Adam Schiff on the Benghazi Committee: \u201cWe don&#8217;t know what we&#8217;re looking for\u2026. Apart from damning Hillary Clinton, it has no reason [&#8230;]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"btn btn-secondary understrap-read-more-link\" href=\"https:\/\/nbcuniversalnewsgroup.com\/nbcnews\/2015\/10\/18\/mtp-sunday-exclusive-sen-cruz-gop-leadership-most-effective-democrat-leaders-weve-ever-seen\/\">Read More&#8230;<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> from MTP SUNDAY EXCLUSIVE: SEN. CRUZ: GOP LEADERSHIP \u201cMOST EFFECTIVE DEMOCRAT LEADERS WE\u2019VE EVER SEEN\u201d<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":425,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[9],"tags":[4,110],"class_list":["post-997","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-meet-the-press","tag-feature","tag-meet-the-press"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>MTP SUNDAY EXCLUSIVE: SEN. 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