{"id":979,"date":"2015-10-04T13:59:32","date_gmt":"2015-10-04T17:59:32","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/press.nbcnews.com\/?p=979"},"modified":"2015-10-04T13:59:32","modified_gmt":"2015-10-04T17:59:32","slug":"mtp-trump-its-not-even-a-contest-that-mideast-would-be-more-stable-with-hussein-why-he-would-bow-out-of-2016-race","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/nbcuniversalnewsgroup.com\/nbcnews\/2015\/10\/04\/mtp-trump-its-not-even-a-contest-that-mideast-would-be-more-stable-with-hussein-why-he-would-bow-out-of-2016-race\/","title":{"rendered":"MTP: TRUMP: \u201cIT\u2019S NOT EVEN A CONTEST\u201d THAT MIDEAST WOULD BE MORE STABLE WITH HUSSEIN &amp; GADDAFI; WHY HE WOULD BOW OUT OF 2016 RACE"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em><strong>Trump on Putin in Syria: \u201cHe\u2019ll get bogged down there\u2026 he\u2019ll be begging to get out\u201d <\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>ALSO: Trump: \u201cIf I were doing poorly [in the polls]&#8230; I\u2019d go back to my business\u201d <\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>New IA &amp; NH Poll Numbers from NBC News\/Wall Street Journal\/Marist\u00a0<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<p>OCT. 4, 2015 &#8212; In a sit down interview in his campaign headquarters, Republican presidential frontrunner <strong>Donald Trump<\/strong> told NBC News\u2019 \u201cMeet the Press\u201d moderator Chuck Todd that \u201cit\u2019s not even a contest\u201d that the Middle East would be more stable under the leadership of Saddam Hussein of Iraq and Moammar Gadhafi of Libya.<\/p>\n<p>On Russia\u2019s involvement in Syria, \u201cI like that Putin is bombing the hell out of ISIS,\u201d Trump said. \u201cI\u2019m not justifying Putin, but you watch, he\u2019ll get bogged down\u201d in Syria. \u201cHe\u2019ll be begging to get out.\u201d Watch the full interview with Trump: <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1PY1C5U\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1PY1C5U<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>New NBC News \/ Wall Street Journal \/ Marist polls<\/strong> released this morning show Trump is still leading in Iowa and New Hampshire but is losing ground to other presidential contenders: <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1MT6sR4\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1MT6sR4<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Stephen Hadley<\/strong>, former national security adviser to President George W. Bush, and <strong>Michael McFaul<\/strong>, former U.S. ambassador to Russia for the Obama administration, also joined the program to discuss the news this week of Russia launching airstrikes in Syria.<\/p>\n<p>This morning\u2019s political roundtable featured <strong>Amy Holmes<\/strong> of The Blaze TV; <strong>Mark Leibovich<\/strong> of The New York Times Magazine; <strong>Rich Lowry<\/strong> of The National Review; and <strong>Ruth Marcus <\/strong>of The Washington Post.<\/p>\n<p><strong><u>MANDATORY CREDIT: NBC NEWS\u2019 \u201cMEET THE PRESS\u201d \u00a0<\/u><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Mandatory credit to NBC News\u2019 \u201cMeet the Press\u201d on first reference.<\/li>\n<li>The onscreen \u201cMeet the Press Exclusive\u201d credit must be clearly visible and unobstructed at all times in any image, video clip, or other form of media.<\/li>\n<li>Embedded web video must stream from the NBCNews.com media player with the unobstructed credit as described above.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Trump: Middle East Would Be More Stable with Hussein &amp; Gadhafi <\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>WATCH: <\/strong><\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1jHLQBU\"><em><strong>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1jHLQBU<\/strong><\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m not saying Assad&#8217;s a good guy, &#8217;cause he&#8217;s probably a bad guy. \u00a0But I&#8217;ve watched him interviewed many times. \u00a0And you can make the case, if you look at Libya, look at what we did there&#8211; it&#8217;s a mess&#8211; if you look at Saddam Hussein with Iraq, look what we did there&#8211; it&#8217;s a mess&#8211; it&#8217;s gonna be same thing.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You think the Middle East would be better today if Gadhafi, Saddam \u00a0and Assad were sort of&#8211; if Saddam and Gadhafi were still there and Assad were stronger? \u00a0You think&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Not even&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;the Middle East would be safer?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;it&#8217;s not even a contest, Chuck. \u00a0It&#8217;s not even a contest. \u00a0Iraq is a disaster. \u00a0And ISIS&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So, it&#8217;d be better off if Saddam were in charge?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Don&#8217;t forget. \u00a0ISIS came out of Iraq.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Right. \u00a0No, I understand.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;the leftovers that didn&#8217;t get taken care of.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, let me button this up. \u00a0If Saddam and Gadhafi, you think things would be more stable?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Of course it would be. \u00a0You wouldn&#8217;t have had your Benghazi situation which is one thing which was just a terrible situation. \u00a0But, of course, it would. \u00a0Libya is&#8211; is not even&#8211; nobody even knows what&#8217;s goin&#8217; on over there. \u00a0It&#8217;s not even a country anymore.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Trump: If My Polls Fall, I\u2019ll Get Out of the Race<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>WATCH: <\/strong><\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1M3yc7e\"><em><strong>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1M3yc7e<\/strong><\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u201cI believe in polls. How many elections do you see where the polls were wrong? \u00a0Not that many. \u00a0Okay. \u00a0You see &#8217;em, but not that many. \u00a0If I were doing poorly, if I saw myself going down, if you would stop calling me &#8217;cause you no longer have any interest in Trump because &#8220;he has no chance,&#8221; I&#8217;d go back to my business. \u00a0I have no problem with that.\u201d<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Trump: If More People Had Guns, There Would Be Less Death in Oregon Shooting<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>WATCH: <\/strong><\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1j83EWO\"><em><strong>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1j83EWO<\/strong><\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Do you think there&#8217;s too many guns in America?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Well, you know, you could make the case that&#8211; the school that we just, you know, went through&#8211; and I see it was a gun-free zone. \u00a0And you were not allowed to have guns at all in that particular area. \u00a0And you could make the case that it woulda been a lot better had people had guns because they had something to fire back.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You say you can make that case. \u00a0Do you make that case?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Well, I would&#8211; I would say that it couldn&#8217;t be much worse. \u00a0I think the police did a great job. \u00a0They got there quickly. \u00a0And they were able to kill him. \u00a0But you can ma&#8211; I can make the case that if there were guns in that room other than his, fewer people would have died, fewer people would have been so horribly injured.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Trump: \u201cGuns, No Guns &#8212; It Doesn\u2019t Matter\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong><em>WATCH: <\/em><\/strong><em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1O9JRRX\"><strong>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1O9JRRX<\/strong><\/a><\/em><\/p>\n<p>\u201cBut, you know, no matter what you do &#8212; guns, no guns &#8212; it doesn&#8217;t matter. \u00a0You have people that are mentally ill. \u00a0And they&#8217;re gonna come through the cracks. \u00a0And they&#8217;re going to do things that people will not even believe are possible. \u00a0And whether it&#8217;s the school shootings which are really very prevalent in this country. \u00a0They seem to be more prevalent in this country.\u201d<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Trump Explains His Tax Plan <\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>WATCH: <\/strong><\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1M9lVd7\"><em><strong>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1M9lVd7<\/strong><\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>If we do 6% or 7% under my plan, everybody benefits&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Who&#8211; wait a minute. \u00a0We&#8217;ve never done sev&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;in jobs.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ve never had a year of 6% or 7%.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>But we can. \u00a0We can do that. \u00a0We can take back&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>How is that gonna look?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Well, first of all, a couple of things. \u00a0Number one, corporate inversion is a big deal. \u00a0And that&#8217;s getting worse and worse. Companies are gonna be leaving here. The old days, they&#8217;d leave New York and they&#8217;d go to Florida. They&#8217;d leave New Jersey, they&#8217;d go to Texas.<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;re leaving the United States now and they&#8217;re going out to different&#8211; whether it&#8217;s Ireland and lots of other places in Europe and Asia. \u00a0And they&#8217;re leaving. \u00a0And there are many companies right now, Chuck, that are talking about very seriously leaving this country. And you&#8217;re talkin&#8217; about thousands of jobs. \u00a0And a couple of these are big powerful companies with lots of jobs.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p>Below are highlights, video clips, and a rush transcript of today\u2019s program. Additional show video is available online at<a href=\"http:\/\/www.meetthepressnbc.com\"> www.MeetThePressNBC.com<\/a>. Join the conversation online with hashtag #MTP.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Facebook Take 5 with Donald Trump: <a href=\"http:\/\/on.fb.me\/1L86EbD\">http:\/\/on.fb.me\/1L86EbD<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Interview with Cecile Richards: Should Planned Parenthood Be in the Politics Business? <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1FMRn41\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1FMRn41<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Inside the Numbers: The Gun Violence Debate <a href=\"http:\/\/on.fb.me\/1M3xdUB\">http:\/\/on.fb.me\/1M3xdUB<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Nerdscreen: Trump Leads in Iowa &amp; New Hampshire <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1L7Z3tw\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1L7Z3tw<\/a><\/li>\n<li>#comPRESSed: Catch Up on \u201cMeet the Press\u201d in Less Than 2 Minutes <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1FNFdrS\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1FNFdrS<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Panel: Who Will Be the Next Speaker of the House? <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1L86zoh\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1L86zoh<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Hadley &amp; McFaul: What is Russia\u2019s Plan in Syria? <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1MT709J\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1MT709J<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p>NBC NEWS &#8211; MEET THE PRESS \/ OCTOBER 4, 2015<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>This Sunday, another mass shooting, and the question why does America lead the world in gun violence?<\/p>\n<p>PRESIDENT OBAMA:<\/p>\n<p>How can you, with a straight face, make the argument that more guns will make us safe?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>In our polarized environment, is there anything to be done to stop gun violence? \u00a0Plus my latest sit-down with Donald Trump, and his surprising comments about what it would take for him to drop out.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m not a masochist. \u00a0And if I was dropping in the polls where I saw that I wasn&#8217;t going to win, why would I continue?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Also, is Trump holding his lead? \u00a0Is Clinton holding off Sanders? \u00a0We&#8217;ve got new numbers out of Iowa and New Hampshire. \u00a0And Russia joins the fight in Syria.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. BOB CORKER:<\/p>\n<p>Putin realizes there&#8217;s going to be no pushback whatsoever from the United States.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Has the U.S. ceded the upper hand to Russia in the region? \u00a0And joining me this morning for insight and analysis are Mark Leibovich of <em>The New York Times Magazine<\/em>; Amy Holmes of <em>The Blaze<\/em>; Ruth Marcus of <em>The Washington Post<\/em>; and Rich Lowry of <em>The National Review<\/em>. \u00a0Welcome to Sunday, it&#8217;s the <em>Meet the Press<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>(ANNOUNCER)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Good Sunday morning. \u00a0This week, Roseburg, Oregon joined the roll call of American towns that have suffered a mass shooting. \u00a0Nine victims from 18 to 67 years old, gunned down on a community college campus. \u00a0Jason Johnson, Sarena Dawn Moore, Lucero Alcaraz, Rebecka Ann Carnes, Quinn Cooper, Treven Taylor Anspach, Lucas Eibel, Lawrence Levine, and Kim Dietz.<\/p>\n<p>This morning, once again, familiar questions about how this could have happened and what it means for the battle over the issue of guns in America. \u00a0We&#8217;re going to get to all of the politics in just a moment, but for the latest, I want to go to NBC&#8217;s Miguel Almaguer who is in Roseburg. \u00a0And, Miguel, I also want you to address we heard from the shooter&#8217;s father who decided to weigh in on the gun debate. \u00a0Tell me more about it.<\/p>\n<p>MIGUEL ALMAGUER:<\/p>\n<p>Yes, absolutely, Chuck. \u00a0We know that the gunman&#8217;s father, 26-year-old Chris Harper Mercer, unloaded several rounds inside the campus behind me. \u00a0Police say he was heavily armed. \u00a0We now know he told students inside that classroom to get together, to lie in the center of that classroom, and then began shooting them.<\/p>\n<p>He told one lucky survivor,he said apparently, according to his victims, that they would pass on a manifesto to police that would lead them to more information about the shooting. \u00a0As you mention, the victim&#8217;s father is also speaking out for the first time about gun violence and his son. \u00a0Here&#8217;s what he said.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>IAN MERCER:<\/p>\n<p>How on earth could he compile 13 guns? \u00a0How can that happen, you know? \u00a0They talk about gun laws, they talk about gun control. \u00a0Every time something like this happens, they talk about it, and nothing is done. \u00a0I&#8217;m not trying to say that\u2019s the blame for what happened, but if Chris had not been able to get ahold of 13 guns, it wouldn&#8217;t have happened.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>MIGUEL ALMAGUER:<\/p>\n<p>Chuck, this is clearly sparking a national debate, but interestingly enough, just shortly after that interview with CNN, we also spoke to a victim\/survivor here at the hospital and she said she believes that more people should be carrying guns inside campuses like this one. \u00a0So it&#8217;s certainly an interesting debate, even after all of the bloodshed and the massacre here. \u00a0It&#8217;s still igniting the country, Chuck.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Miguel Almaguer, you&#8217;re absolutely right. \u00a0This is a debate. \u00a0Is it about gun control or gun-free zones? \u00a0We&#8217;re going to get to all of that. \u00a0In fact, let me go to some data here for you. \u00a0According to Mass Shooter Tracker Data, which defines a mass shooting as an incident where four or more people are shot, there now have been 294 mass shootings this year alone; nearly 1,000 since the database was created in the wake of the Sandy Hook shooting in December of 2012. \u00a0That&#8217;s more than one a day.<\/p>\n<p>The U.S. has a gun homicide rate nearly four times higher than Switzerland&#8217;s, six times Canada&#8217;s, 16 times Germany&#8217;s, 21 times Australia&#8217;s, and 49 times the rate in France. \u00a0But the high profile shootings haven&#8217;t shifted views on gun control. \u00a0Though 87% of Americans favor expanded background checks, last year for the first time in more than two decades, it&#8217;s a higher percentage of Americans, 52%, who said it was more important to protect the right of Americans to own guns than to control gun ownership. \u00a0And we saw the divide play out this week, beginning with a visibly frustrated president who admitted he was politicizing the issue.<\/p>\n<p>PRESIDENT OBAMA:<\/p>\n<p>Somehow this has become routine. \u00a0What&#8217;s also routine is that somebody, somewhere will comment and say, &#8220;Obama politicized this issue.&#8221; \u00a0Well, this is something we should politicize.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>On the campaign trail, Republican candidates responded and sounded strikingly similar.<\/p>\n<p>SEN. MARCO RUBIO:<\/p>\n<p>I always find it interesting that the reflexive reaction of the left is to say we need more gun laws. \u00a0Criminals don&#8217;t follow gun laws, only law-abiding people follow gun laws.<\/p>\n<p>BEN CARSON (R):<\/p>\n<p>Gun control only works toward normal, law-abiding citizens. \u00a0Doesn&#8217;t work for crazies.<\/p>\n<p>GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH):<\/p>\n<p>If you take guns away from people who are law abiding, the people who are gonna cause these horrible things are still going to have them.<\/p>\n<p>CARLY FIORINA:<\/p>\n<p>Before we start calling for more laws, I think we ought to consider why we don&#8217;t enforce the laws we have.<\/p>\n<p>FMR. GOV. JEB BUSH (R-FL):<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s very sad to see, but I resist the notion&#8211; and I had this challenge as governor because, look, stuff happens. \u00a0There&#8217;s always a crisis. \u00a0And the impulse is always to do something, and it&#8217;s not necessarily the right thing to do.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And on Friday I sat down with the Republican frontrunner, Donald Trump, and asked him to react to the president&#8217;s statement on the shooting.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Well, you know&#8211; I watched his statement. \u00a0And I understand exactly what he&#8217;s saying. \u00a0But, you know, no matter what you do, guns, no guns, it doesn&#8217;t matter. \u00a0You have people that are mentally ill. \u00a0And they&#8217;re gonna come through the cracks. \u00a0And they&#8217;re going to do things that people will not even believe are possible. \u00a0And whether it&#8217;s the school shootings which are really very prevalent in this country. \u00a0They seem to be more prevalent in this country.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Why&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m not sure.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>What&#8217;s your explanation?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;re just sick people. \u00a0They are mentally imbalanced. \u00a0And they probably see it happening here more here more so&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Do you think we have more mentally ill people than other countries?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I think what we have is I think we have copycats. \u00a0I think they watch it and they see it here maybe more than other places. \u00a0And&#8211; the world can be a pretty sick place in so many different ways. \u00a0But we have mentally very unstable people. \u00a0And that is going to lead&#8211; and you know it&#8217;s not politically correct to say. \u00a0You can have the best security. \u00a0You can have the best everything. \u00a0But people are able to get in and do this terr&#8211; you know, just terrible damage.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>This is a startling statistic. \u00a0153,000 people have died from gunshots since 9\/11. \u00a0And counting 9\/11, up to 214,000. \u00a0Three&#8211; over&#8211; just over 3,000 people have died from terrorist attacks. \u00a0We have&#8211; the president&#8217;s point is, we have devoted all these energies to prevent terrorism. \u00a0Should there be a sense of urgency on this?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>So the way I look at it, you take Chicago, you take Baltimore, you take various other places where you have tremendous gun violence and death, right? \u00a0The strictest laws in the United States&#8211; in the world&#8211; for guns happens to be Chicago where they have a lot of problems. \u00a0Baltimore, a lot of the places where you have the biggest problem is where they have the strongest laws.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>But local laws&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s about laws.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;without a national&#8211; without a national floor are pointless.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>But the problem you have is the&#8211; the strongest, the most stringent laws are in almost every case the worse places. \u00a0It doesn&#8217;t seem to work. \u00a0It&#8217;s a tough situation, Chuck. \u00a0It&#8217;s a tough situation. \u00a0And when it comes to the schools, it really is mental health. \u00a0It&#8217;s a mental problem. \u00a0We have&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You don&#8217;t believe this is a&#8211; w&#8211; we have too many guns? \u00a0Do you think there&#8217;s too many guns in America?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Well, you know, you could make the case that&#8211; the school that we just, you know, went through&#8211; and I see it was a gun-free zone. \u00a0And you were not allowed to have guns at all in that particular area. \u00a0And you could make the case that it woulda been a lot better had people had guns because they had something to fire back.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You say you can make that case. \u00a0Do you make that case?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Well, I would&#8211; I would say that it couldn&#8217;t be much worse. \u00a0I think the police did a great job. \u00a0They got there quickly. \u00a0And they were able to kill him. \u00a0But you can ma&#8211; I can make the case that if there were guns in that room other than his, fewer people would have died, fewer people would have been so horribly injured.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;re going to get to the rest of my interview with Donald Trump on his tax plan, how he plans to pay for it; the Middle East&#8211;wait till you hear his position there; and what might make him decide to get out of the race someday. \u00a0That&#8217;s all coming up in a few minutes.<\/p>\n<p>But first, let&#8217;s bring back the panel and discuss this issue of guns in America. \u00a0Mark Leibovich of <em>The New York Times Magazine<\/em>; Amy Holmes, news anchor for The Blaze,that&#8217;s the Glenn Beck television network; Ruth Marcus, columnist for <em>The Washington Post<\/em>; and Rich Lowry, editor <em>The National Review<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Let me throw up that statistic again here, Rich, of the number of people that have died from terrorist attacks and number of Americans that have died from gunshots. \u00a0Let&#8217;s take away the different proposals of solutions. \u00a0Should we have a sense of urgency of this problem in America, with the equivalency of the way we tackle terrorism?<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>Well the, it is a core responsibility of the government to protect us from foreign enemies. \u00a0The reason the gun debate is going nowhere and is so sterile is anything you do at the margins is not going to stop these kind of mass shootings, and anything that you would do that potentially would be much more sweeping is going to run afoul of a fundamental constitutional right to bear arms.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You know, it&#8217;s interesting, Ruth, I went ahead and did, we looked up the requirements for getting a car, essentially, registering a car, and the requirements for getting a gun, getting a permit for a gun. \u00a0All 50 states, you have get a license or a permit to drive a car; 13 states for a gun.<\/p>\n<p>All 50 states require some various forms of testing to drive a car; six states require to get a gun permit. \u00a0And of course, for the car, you register regularly, sometimes on a yearly basis, sometimes bi-yearly; only six states require that. \u00a0Is that unfair? \u00a0As Rich pointed out, the Constitution, there is no right to drive a car in the Constitution.<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>Yes, and Rich really correctly points out the cruel paradox here which is that the measures that would be most effective are also the most politically unimaginable and the most probably unconstitutional. \u00a0But I think, Rich, you really misstate the total role of government. \u00a0It&#8217;s not simply to protect us from foreign enemies, it&#8217;s to make sure that we have a safe and livable environment. \u00a0And to quote Jeb Bush, &#8220;Too much stuff is happening on guns.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>And so we need, within the constraints of public opinion and the constraints of the Constitution, to start to figure out some solutions to keep us safe. \u00a0I have two daughters on college campuses. \u00a0I watch these things and I am terrified. \u00a0And I think whatever your political viewpoint is, you should be terrified. \u00a0And simply to say that there&#8217;s crazy people and stuff happens is abdicating government&#8217;s responsibility.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Amy, what is the sense of urgency that we should have?<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>I think we should have a sense of urgency about what do we do with this angry, misfit malcontents who we also know are inspired by watching the news about mass shootings? \u00a0Mass shootings tend to happen in clusters. \u00a0They often telegraph, advertise their intention to commit this violence.<\/p>\n<p>So when I look at the debate, being routine or sterile or stale, as you&#8217;re putting it, Rich, is that it shifts immediately to gun control and not some of the other issues surrounding mass shooters. \u00a0And what can we do to try to prevent these mainly young men from committing these violent acts?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, should there be more hurdles? \u00a0I mean, yes, the mental health issue, but&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>But it&#8217;s more than mental health. \u00a0It is the fame that they&#8217;re seeking, the notoriety that they&#8217;re seeking, the way that media plays into that by turning them into celebrities. \u00a0Most of them say, fascinating and disturbing, that they want to be famous.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s no doubt that there is a media role. \u00a0I don&#8217;t want to mention the guy&#8217;s name anymore, he&#8217;s been mentioned once; I&#8217;m not going to voice his name. \u00a0But, as the president points out, Mark, we&#8217;re not the only country with crazy people.<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s true. \u00a0And, look, the president&#8217;s had this entire debate almost with himself. \u00a0He anticipated&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You saw it.<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;all of the tropes that have unfolded over a several-day period, all of which has happened, by the way. \u00a0He anticipated what the Republican presidential candidates were going to say, what Congress was going to say. \u00a0I mean, look, the issue is politicized. \u00a0I don\u2019t even, I mean, when he said they should politicize the issue, it is politicized.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s politicized because the N.R.A. pretty much owns more than half of Congress. \u00a0I mean, that is why this issue, you know, \u00a0is basically immutable. \u00a0You mentioned the Constitution, public opinion; the other piece of this is the political impossibility of any&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ve got a challenge here for around the table. \u00a0Can you name me the last candidate who lost because they weren&#8217;t for gun control? There\u2019s a lot of silence here. \u00a0I mean, if that you want to know when the politics would change, right, Rich Lowry? \u00a0It&#8217;s when that phenomenon&#8211; I can list you dozens of candidates who&#8217;ve lost because of their position&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;because they were too pro gun control.<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>But&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>The N.R.A. represents real people out there, which is why it&#8217;s so powerful. \u00a0And what I really objected to in the president&#8217;s statement, I don&#8217;t mind politicizing an issue where we&#8217;re going to have a debate about public policy. \u00a0That&#8217;s what politics is.<\/p>\n<p>But it&#8217;s the sense that he gave that there&#8217;s some magic button that can be pushed and we all know what it is, and we just don&#8217;t have the political will to push it. \u00a0You look at the specific things the left tends to talk about that are more marginal, universal background checks? \u00a0Well, a lot of these guys pass the background checks we already have because they don&#8217;t have prior criminal records.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I guess the question is should we have a&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>The assault weapons ban collapsed because everyone knew that it was just&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;higher level of background checks?<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>Well, if someone hasn&#8217;t committed a crime, and hasn&#8217;t been adjudicated for any mental disorder, in a country with the Second Amendment, you are not going to stop that person from buying a gun.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Last question.<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s no perfect solution, but there are marginal improvements. \u00a0Limit the size of magazines, that would have stopped Jared Loughner from killing as many people before he stopped to reload. \u00a0Make the background checks so that it&#8217;s not automatic that you get it if it&#8217;s not completed in three days, that would\u2019ve, that might have stopped Dylan Roof from having his guns. \u00a0We have to do something. \u00a0Just because no solution is perfect doesn&#8217;t mean there&#8217;s nothing we should do.<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>These aren&#8217;t impulse killers. \u00a0They&#8217;re people who are sitting and stewing. \u00a0And I think Amy&#8217;s point is an important one. \u00a0There\u2019s now&#8211;Columbine created a cultural norm where if you&#8217;re disturbed or disaffected, you go out in a blaze of infamy. \u00a0We need to disempower that norm. \u00a0But it&#8217;s much easier&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>And give families&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;said than done.<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;tools that, if they have one of these young men under their roof, that they are able to address it.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m going to pause this debate, because we&#8217;re never going to end this debate, but I think it\u2019s one of those things, this is one of those where everybody should admit they should be willing to put everything on the table. \u00a0We&#8217;re back in one minute with the rest of my interview with Donald Trump, including the very surprising thing he said about what might get him to quit the race.<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Welcome back. And now to the rest of my interview with Donald Trump, beginning with the tax plan he released this week that analysts say would blow an enormous hole in the deficit. Anywhere from 10 to 12 trillion dollars.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Everybody&#8217;s taxes are going down. \u00a0And some people won&#8217;t pay tax. \u00a0And the reason they&#8217;re not gonna pay&#8211; and I love the idea of having a little sort of fat in the game, if we can. \u00a0But the fact is, these are people that are doing very poorly. \u00a0I mean, they&#8217;re making not a lot of money.<\/p>\n<p>And we&#8217;re saving a tremendous amount of administrative costs and a lot of things by not makin&#8217; &#8217;em pay. \u00a0My&#8211; under my plan&#8211; I really think it&#8217;s a very dynamic plan. \u00a0We&#8217;re gonna grow the economy. Hey, if China does at 7%, they&#8217;re having a terrible year. \u00a0We&#8217;re saying we can&#8217;t do a 3% and 4%.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>We just had 4%&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>And we can.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;last quarter.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Well, and we can do it. \u00a0Well, we also had 0% the first quarter.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I understand. \u00a0But we just had 4% the last quarter.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Okay.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And we&#8217;ve av&#8211; we&#8217;re&#8211; we&#8217;re&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Well, a little less than 4%. \u00a0But we had&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Right, 3.9%.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Right, yeah. \u00a0It was&#8211; it was&#8211; it was what?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>3.9% last quarter.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Okay. \u00a0Okay. \u00a0But if you look at the overall average, we&#8217;re doing 2% and we&#8217;re doing less than 2% for the year. \u00a0So we can do really terrifically. \u00a0China, if they do 7%&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Right, but in an emerging economy&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Now if we do seven&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>An emerging economy is always gonna 6%, 7%.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I know that. \u00a0But if we do 6% or 7% under my&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Our sweet spot is 3% to 5%.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Right. \u00a0If we do 6% or 7% under my plan, everybody benefits&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Who&#8211; wait a minute. \u00a0We&#8217;ve never done sev&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;in jobs.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ve never had a year of 6% or 7%.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>But we can. \u00a0We can do that. \u00a0We can take back&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>How is that gonna look?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Well, first of all, a couple of things. \u00a0Number one, corporate inversion is a big deal. \u00a0And that&#8217;s getting worse and worse. Companies are gonna be leaving here. The old days, they&#8217;d leave New York and they&#8217;d go to Florida. They&#8217;d leave New Jersey, they&#8217;d go to Texas.<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;re leaving the United States now and they&#8217;re going out to different&#8211; whether it&#8217;s Ireland and lots of other places in Europe and Asia. \u00a0And they&#8217;re leaving. \u00a0And there are many companies right now, Chuck, that are talking about very seriously leaving this country. And you&#8217;re talkin&#8217; about thousands of jobs. \u00a0And a couple of these are big powerful companies with lots of jobs.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>What you&#8217;re saying is, you make it all up with growth.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>No, no. \u00a0Not all up with growth. \u00a0We also start cutting. \u00a0Because the waste in this country is unbelievable. \u00a0When you look at all of the&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You&#8217;re gonna get rid of entire departments?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I would get rid of some. \u00a0You look at&#8211; as in&#8211; as an example, Department of Education.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You&#8217;d get rid of it.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>No, not entirely. \u00a0But I would certainly get rid of a lot of it. \u00a0If you look at Jeb Bush, he&#8217;s a big&#8211; you know, he&#8217;s a big Common Core person. \u00a0I&#8217;m not. \u00a0I want local education. \u00a0We could save a fortune with Environmental Protection&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Financially, not a big department, though.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Ahhh&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You&#8217;re not gonna get rid of a lot&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;it&#8217;s&#8211; it&#8217;s a lot&#8211; it&#8217;s a lot&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;you&#8217;re not gonna&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;of money.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;you&#8217;re not gonna get rid of&#8211; as much as y&#8211; what is another agency you&#8217;d get rid of?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>We have&#8211; even in the military&#8211; I&#8217;m gonna build a military that&#8217;s gonna be much stronger than it is right now. \u00a0It&#8217;s gonna be so strong, nobody&#8217;s gonna mess with us. \u00a0But you know what? \u00a0We can do it for a lot less. \u00a0They sent a washer from South Carolina to Texas. \u00a0It cost $997,000, okay?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So you believe you can spend&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>It was fraud&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;less money on&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;it was fraud.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;defense than we do today?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I think we can make our defense much stronger, spend somewhat less money and increase&#8211; look&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So you can cut the&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;when they&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;defense budget&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;when they send&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;and make the military stronger?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Chuck, when they send an 18 cent washer from South Carolina to Texas and it costs almost a million dollars to bring it there, because of the fraud and abuse and everything else&#8211; I mean, it was a fraud&#8211; but there have been many cases like that&#8211; we can save so much. \u00a0When a hammer that you buy at Home Depot for $8.00 costs&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>How many&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;nine hundred dollars&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;all right, you know&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;but there&#8217;s thou&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Do you know how many politicians have said this over the years?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I know. \u00a0But I&#8217;m not a politician.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Waste, fraud and abuse&#8211; oh, if I get waste, fraud and abuse and that&#8217;s how&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I know.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;&#8220;I&#8217;m gonna do it&#8221;&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I know. \u00a0But&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;it never happens.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;I&#8217;m not a politician. I&#8217;m a business guy. \u00a0I mean, of course, for the last three months I&#8217;m a politician.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>It never happens.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>But it&#8211; you watch it happen with me.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Let&#8217;s move to Syria.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Okay.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You came across to me as if you welcomed Putin&#8217;s involvement in Syria. \u00a0You said it was sort of, like, you didn&#8217;t s&#8211; you saw very little downside. Why?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ll tell ya why. \u00a0I&#8217;ve&#8211; I am somebody that&#8211; and you know I&#8217;ve been saying this to you for a long time&#8211; I want our military to be beyond anything, no contest, and technologically, most importantly. \u00a0Because you&#8217;re getting now, militaries have to be technologically advanced. \u00a0So, we probably have a big advantage&#8211; we do have a big advantage of that. \u00a0But we are gonna get bogged down in Syria. \u00a0If you look at what happened with the Soviet Union in Afghanistan, that&#8217;s when they went bankrupt. \u00a0They went bankrupt. \u00a0They were there so long&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So, you think&#8211;you&#8211; you think Putin&#8217;s gonna get suckered into&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;re gonna get bogged down. \u00a0Everybody that&#8217;s touched the Middle East, they&#8217;ve gotten bogged down. \u00a0Now, Putin wants to go in&#8211; Putin does not want ISIS. \u00a0I know they haven&#8217;t hit &#8217;em as hard as they should be hitting &#8217;em because&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;re hittin&#8217; Assad&#8211; they&#8217;re hittin&#8217; people we&#8217;ve trained.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Excuse me. \u00a0Where they&#8217;re hitting people, we&#8217;re talking about people that we don&#8217;t even know. \u00a0The rebel group&#8211; we have no idea. \u00a0I was talking to a general two days ago. \u00a0He said, &#8220;We have no idea who these people are. \u00a0We&#8217;re training people. \u00a0We don&#8217;t know who they are. \u00a0We&#8217;re giving &#8217;em billions of dollars to fight Assad.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>And you know what? \u00a0It&#8217;s very po&#8211; I&#8217;m not saying Assad&#8217;s a good guy, &#8217;cause he&#8217;s probably a bad guy. \u00a0But I&#8217;ve watched him interviewed many times. \u00a0And you can make the case, if you look at Libya, look at what we did there&#8211; it&#8217;s a mess&#8211; if you look at Saddam Hussein with Iraq, look what we did there&#8211; it&#8217;s a mess&#8211; it&#8217;s gonna be same thing.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You think the Middle East would be better today if Gadhafi, Saddam \u00a0and Assad were sort of&#8211; if Saddam and Gaddafi were still there and Assad were stronger? \u00a0You think&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Not even&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;the Middle East would be safer?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;it&#8217;s not even a contest, Chuck. \u00a0It&#8217;s not even a contest. \u00a0Iraq is a disaster. \u00a0And ISIS&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So, it&#8217;d be better off if Saddam were in charge?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Don&#8217;t forget. \u00a0ISIS came out of Iraq.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Right. \u00a0No, I understand.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;the leftovers that didn&#8217;t get taken care of.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, let me button this up. \u00a0If Saddam and Gadhafi, you think things would be more stable?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Of course it would be. \u00a0You wouldn&#8217;t have had your Benghazi situation which is one thing which was just a terrible situation. \u00a0But, of course, it would. \u00a0Libya is&#8211; is not even&#8211; nobody even knows what&#8217;s goin&#8217; on over there. \u00a0It&#8217;s not even a country anymore.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So you welcome Putin&#8217;s involvement.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I like that Putin is bombing the hell out of ISIS&#8211; and it&#8217;s going to be ISIS. \u00a0I&#8217;ll tell ya why. \u00a0Putin has to get rid of ISIS &#8217;cause Putin doesn&#8217;t want ISIS coming into Russia.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Why do you trust him and nobody else does?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t trust him. \u00a0I don&#8217;t trust him at all, other that we both got very good ratings the other night on <em>60 Minutes<\/em>, &#8217;cause I&#8211; (LAUGH) it was with me and Putin. \u00a0Can you believe this&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Ah&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;of all things?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;there you go.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Right? \u00a0So, I don&#8217;t know. \u00a0Did I get the ratings or did he? \u00a0But the truth&#8211; it&#8217;s not a question of trust. \u00a0I don&#8217;t wanna see the United States&#8211; we&#8217;ve spent now&#8211; we&#8217;ve spent $2 trillion in Iraq, probably a trillion in Afghanistan. \u00a0We&#8217;re in the&#8211; we&#8217;re destroying our country.<\/p>\n<p>We owe $19 trillion. \u00a0We&#8217;re bogged down. Russia was bogged down in Afghanistan, meaning the Soviet Union. \u00a0It broke up the Soviet Union. \u00a0They&#8217;re gonna get bogged down, you watch. \u00a0As sure as you&#8217;re sitting there&#8211; and I&#8217;m the one that said, &#8220;Don&#8217;t&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So, you would&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Chuck, I said, &#8220;Don&#8217;t do Iraq.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;you&#8211; you would&#8211; you would sort of&#8211; you would pull out of what we&#8217;re doing&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;d&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;in Syria now.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;no, I&#8217;d sit back and&#8211; this is not usually me talking, okay, &#8217;cause I&#8217;m very proactive, as you probably know.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I know.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>But I would sit back and, &#8220;Let&#8217;s see what&#8217;s going on.&#8221; \u00a0Here&#8217;s the problem to what you&#8217;re saying in Syria. \u00a0We are fighting Assad. \u00a0And we&#8217;re fighting for people and helping people that we don&#8217;t even know who they are. \u00a0And they may be worse than Assad. \u00a0They may be worse, okay?<\/p>\n<p>They may be worse. \u00a0And if Assad never happened, if you don&#8217;t have a problem in Syria, you wouldn&#8217;t have the migration, you wouldn&#8217;t be talking about all of these countries with what&#8217;s going on in Europe. \u00a0And now they&#8217;re talking about taking 200,000 people that we don&#8217;t even know who they are and bringin&#8217; &#8217;em to the United States? \u00a0The whole thing is ridiculous. \u00a0So, I&#8217;m not just justifying Putin. \u00a0But you watch, he&#8217;ll get bogged down there. \u00a0He&#8217;ll be there. \u00a0He&#8217;ll spend a fortune. \u00a0He&#8217;ll be begging to get out.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Two more questions I want to get into. \u00a0You said something the other day that caught me off-guard. \u00a0You said you&#8217;re not a masochist. \u00a0And if you start falling in the polls&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;you&#8217;ll go back to your business. \u00a0What does that mean? \u00a0Are you not in this for the long&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;haul or not? \u00a0And I&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;people&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;I was just gonna say&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;I&#8211; I&#8211; I heard it. \u00a0You said it on <em>The Today Show<\/em> and with my buddy, John Harwood.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And it caught my ear. \u00a0I&#8217;m, like, &#8220;Uh oh&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>No, you&#8217;re&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>What does that mean?<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;you don&#8217;t&#8211; a lotta people have asked me that question. \u00a0Number one, I&#8217;m not a masochist. \u00a0And if I was dropping in the polls where I saw that I wasn&#8217;t gonna win, why would I continue? \u00a0And it&#8217;s funny. \u00a0Maybe it&#8217;s, like, not like me because it&#8217;s the power of positive thinking&#8211; I&#8217;m a very positive person, I&#8217;m a positive thinker&#8211; but the truth is, I&#8217;m a realist. \u00a0I&#8217;m doing great in the polls right now, I think you will say. \u00a0I&#8217;m not saying anything. \u00a0I&#8217;m leading everything, right?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You&#8217;re leadin&#8217; every poll.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Everything. \u00a0By a lot.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>In a Republican primary.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Not only leading, by a lot. \u00a0Okay&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>General elections are different stories, but that&#8217;s all right.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>Well, you&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;re not there yet.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I believe in polls. How many elections do you see where the polls were wrong? \u00a0Not that many. \u00a0Okay. \u00a0You see &#8217;em, but not that many. \u00a0If I were doing poorly, if I saw myself going down, if you would stop calling me &#8217;cause you no longer have any interest in Trump because &#8220;he has no chance,&#8221; I&#8217;d go back to my business. \u00a0I have no problem with that.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well there it is. Boy, there\u2019s a lot to chew over there, particularly what he said about the Middle East and of course with his own poll ratings. We\u2019ll do that later in the show. And there\u2019s a lot more to that interview, it\u2019s on our website MeetThePressNBC.com.<\/p>\n<p>When we come back, we got something that Donald Trump loves: polls. It\u2019s our latest polls out of Iowa and New Hampshire. You\u2019d be surprised who gained the most and who lost the most. Donald Trump\u2019s going to be surprised about who lost the most. That\u2019s all coming up in a second.<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You know what that music means. It means it&#8217;s time for Nerd Screen, and this week\u2019s Nerd Screen, all about our new NBC News<em>\/Wall Street Journal<\/em>\/Marist polls out of Iowa and New Hampshire. And we&#8217;re going to start with the Republican race in Iowa here. The leader is the same, Donald Trump, but his lead is down five points from the last time we checked it a month ago.<\/p>\n<p>Ben Carson is second, he&#8217;s down three. \u00a0The movers here in Iowa, Carly Fiorina, she jumped three points into third place. \u00a0Jeb Bush in the high single digits there. \u00a0Let&#8217;s look at the rest of the second tier. \u00a0Cruz, Rubio, Jindal, Huckabee, Paul, and Christie, look at that, all bunched up between 4-6%. \u00a0You&#8217;d say here that maybe it&#8217;s Bobby Jindal that has to feel the best about this, above 5% somewhere, meaning Iowa. \u00a0That&#8217;s good news for him. \u00a0If your candidate isn&#8217;t on here, by the way, it means they didn&#8217;t top 3% in this field.<\/p>\n<p>Now let&#8217;s look at the New Hampshire primary here. \u00a0Donald Trump still in the lead, but look at this. \u00a0His number has dropped a whopping seven points. \u00a0Carly Fiorina, first time she&#8217;s in second place in any of the early states. \u00a0She jumps up double digits here, ten points. \u00a0She&#8217;s now up to 16%. \u00a0Jeb Bush, Rubio, Carson, also in double digits. \u00a0Jeb Bush, by the way, may be benefiting from a new multimillion-dollar ad campaign he&#8217;s got in New Hampshire.<\/p>\n<p>Let&#8217;s look at the second tier here in New Hampshire. \u00a0Christie, Kasich, Cruz, and Paul, all between 5-7%. \u00a0The news here? \u00a0Look at this, John Kasich. \u00a0Remember when he was in double digits in September? \u00a0That has been cut in half. \u00a0Now let&#8217;s take a look at the Democrats.<\/p>\n<p>Here, things are fairly stable. \u00a0In Iowa, Clinton ahead 47%-36%. \u00a0It&#8217;s close, but she&#8217;s holding that lead. \u00a0In New Hampshire, again, status quo, but the status quo is not good for Hillary Clinton. \u00a0Bernie Sanders at 48% in that state that neighbors Vermont. \u00a0Hillary Clinton sitting at 39%. \u00a0By the way, when you throw Joe Biden in here, guess whose lead expands? \u00a0Bernie Sanders&#8217;.<\/p>\n<p>Coming up, we&#8217;re going to break down the 2016 race and then look at what happens in Washington when you say what a lot of people think is the truth, but you do it accidentally, you discover your chances of becoming the next Speaker of the House are in big trouble.<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Got a lot to digest. \u00a0Trump, those polls. \u00a0The panel is back. \u00a0Mark Leibovich, I&#8217;ve got to first start with, from what we&#8217;ve seen in those polls, Carly Fiorina spiking into second place. \u00a0Everything seems to shake up below Trump. \u00a0I mean, Trump, these aren&#8217;t great numbers for him, but he&#8217;s still ahead. \u00a0But the shakeup is always underneath him.<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>It is underneath him. \u00a0But I think the fact that there&#8217;s such a big bunch, the fact that itself is fluid, helps Trump a lot because it makes&#8211; \u00a0in a way it stabilizes his support because it turns the rest of the field into sort of an anti-Trump vote. \u00a0He&#8217;s slipped a little bit, Trump has.<\/p>\n<p>I think&#8211; what&#8217;s interesting now is we&#8217;re seeing state-by-state polls. \u00a0There are fewer national polls. \u00a0Iowa and New Hampshire, there&#8217;s a little tightening for Trump. \u00a0And the question is, if he loses Iowa, does he recover in New Hampshire? \u00a0If you sort of think about this state by state, does he have any organization in those&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Amy, you know what&#8217;s interesting here? \u00a0There are 11 different candidates in the two polls that scored 5% or better in at least Iowa or New Hampshire. \u00a0This field is still fluid.<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>Very fluid. \u00a0Very fluid. \u00a0And voters are still undecided. \u00a0You&#8217;re seeing all of that churning. \u00a0I have to imagine that for Jeb Bush, that what&#8217;s keeping him warm at night is that actually neither of the last two Republican nominees were chosen in Iowa. \u00a0John McCain and Mitt Romney. \u00a0And so maybe he&#8217;s thinking he can survive this if he&#8217;s not doing well right now.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>The other thing that&#8217;s making him feel better is that I think in the New Hampshire polls, the first evidence money might matter. \u00a0Okay? \u00a0He is spending a whole bunch of money; he&#8217;s outspending the field right now. \u00a0And he&#8217;s in double digits. \u00a0Let&#8217;s see where he is at the end of the month.<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>He&#8217;s outspending the field and he&#8217;s got a whopping amount still in the bank. \u00a0But I think the real news in this poll and the news in your interview actually isn&#8217;t the under card, I think it\u2019s Trump because if you look at this poll and other polls, the numbers are starting&#8211; we don&#8217;t know whether they&#8217;ll plateau, but the trend line is not good for Trump. \u00a0And what he told you and what he told Mark is that this guy&#8211; the other candidates, they all have presidential fever. \u00a0They will slog through the snows of Iowa&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Look at Bobby Jindal.<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;and New Hampshire because&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Bobby Jindal has been suffering, and he&#8217;s fighting.<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s what they want. \u00a0Trump does not have presidential fever, he has attention fever. \u00a0And once the attention is off him, he doesn&#8217;t do smatterings. \u00a0He told you. \u00a0Once the attention is off him, he&#8217;s out of there.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I promise you, we&#8217;re gonna talk a little more Trump later in the show. \u00a0Rich, I want to turn to what&#8217;s going on inside the Republican conference in the House. \u00a0Let me play&#8211; Kevin McCarthy is in some hot water for comments he made about the Benghazi committee. \u00a0Some might argue it is the classic Michael Kinsley gaffe. \u00a0He accidentally told the truth. \u00a0Let&#8217;s hear what he said first.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY:<\/p>\n<p>Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable, right? \u00a0But we put together a Benghazi special committee, a select committee. \u00a0What are her numbers today? \u00a0Her numbers are dropping. \u00a0Why? \u00a0Because she&#8217;s untrustable. \u00a0But no one would have known any of that had happened had we not&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>SEAN HANNITY:<\/p>\n<p>I agree.<\/p>\n<p>REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;stopped and made that happen.<\/p>\n<p>SEAN HANNITY:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;something good?<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And, boy, Republicans didn&#8217;t like it. \u00a0Jason Chaffetz, by the way, who just announced today he&#8217;s officially going to challenge McCarthy for the speakership, he went after McCarthy hard for the comment.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>REP. JASON CHAFFETZ:<\/p>\n<p>To suggest that there was any sort of political motivation is absolutely&#8211; it&#8217;s not fair to Mr. Gowdy, it&#8217;s not fair to myself, and most importantly, it&#8217;s not fair to those four families who lost those loved ones. \u00a0That&#8217;s not why we&#8217;re doing this.<\/p>\n<p>I think he should withdraw that statement. \u00a0I think he needs to express how wrong it was. \u00a0And it was never the intention, it&#8217;s not what we&#8217;re doing. \u00a0And I think the statement is totally wrong.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Rich, I&#8217;ve talked to a lot of Republicans in the House who are furious at McCarthy because they feel as if they just handed Hillary Clinton a talking point for the October 22nd testimony. \u00a0Let&#8217;s set that part aside a minute. \u00a0Is McCarthy in trouble?<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>Yes, he is, in this sense. \u00a0He has a strong lock on the House Republican caucus. \u00a0He probably has 190 or something votes. \u00a0He needs more. \u00a0He needs to get 218 on the floor to actually become Speaker, and it&#8217;s not clear he&#8217;s going to get there. \u00a0It&#8217;s not clear that anyone else can get there either. \u00a0So it&#8217;s extremely unsettled, and the only prediction I would feel confident in making is there will eventually be another Speaker of the House. \u00a0But I don&#8217;t know how&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Eventually meaning&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;they get there.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;when? \u00a0By the end of this year? \u00a0Or by the end of next year?<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t know. \u00a0The best McCarthy will have to make is, &#8220;Look, I have the most support within the conference. \u00a0We don&#8217;t want to embarrass ourselves with complete chaos on the floor. \u00a0Just let me have this position and be miserable with it, the way John Boehner is.&#8221; \u00a0But it may just be utter chaos.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Amy, I&#8217;ve heard Republicans, no offense to Jason Chaffetz here, but where is the rest of the A-team of the House? \u00a0Why aren&#8217;t they running for speaker? \u00a0Where&#8217;s Paul Ryan, where&#8217;s Jeb Hensarling? \u00a0Where\u2019s some people who might get 218?<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>Right, people who are looking for standard-bearers for the conservative&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Little more of a statesman of&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;the conservative movement.<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>Now, the person I&#8217;m looking at who I think is sitting very pretty right now is Jim Jordan. \u00a0And he&#8217;s the head of the Freedom Caucus, which of course is going to be pivotal in choosing the next&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Boy, did John Boehner&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;House Speaker.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;not like him.<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>Right. \u00a0And you don&#8217;t have to be a writer for <em>House of Cards<\/em> to imagine the back-room dealing, and that Jim Jordan might just become Oversight chairman if he&#8217;s willing to promise his Freedom Caucus.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Ruth Marcus, Hillary Clinton campaign. \u00a0You know, she came out and looked very stern and lecturing but, I mean, she wanted to break out in cheers, right?<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>I think she was doing a little jig kind of right off camera there. \u00a0What a gift, and Lord knows she needs it because this has been a very rocky&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>She had a very rough&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;stretch for her.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>This was no doubt that I think that setting up Gowdy versus Clinton was going to serious. \u00a0Now Gowdy&#8217;s been undermined, right?<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>He&#8217;s been completely undermined. \u00a0And it&#8217;s actually an unbelievable statement that this actually happened. \u00a0I mean, yes, it might have been the truth but, again, you&#8217;re not supposed to tell the truth like this. \u00a0But she will, not only does she have a sound bite, but she has, she&#8217;ll be able to repeat this over and over and over.<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>Yes, but it&#8217;s not that she can repeat it. \u00a0It&#8217;s that the attacks on her have to be muted now. \u00a0To the extent that it was going to be a Hillary-bashing fest on October 22nd, they really need to dial it back down&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Gowdy&#8217;s not stupid. \u00a0He&#8217;ll change&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>Correct.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;he\u2019ll change his tact.<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>But the thing is, if Republican investigative committees had the power to diminish Hillary&#8217;s poll numbers, she would have been at zero a very long time ago. \u00a0And what McCarthy was trying to say, very ineptly, is the committee, through its work, uncovered a key and very important thing that has hurt Hillary.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And if he had said it like that?<\/p>\n<p>(OVERTALK)<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>Lowry for Speaker, you heard it here first.<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>What&#8217;s amazing about McCarthy&#8217;s statement is that it&#8217;s not only stupid, it&#8217;s wrong. \u00a0It wasn&#8217;t the hearing that was driving down her poll numbers, it was the email scandal<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well what\u2019s more important is there are a lot of conservatives who believe and are offended by McCarthy&#8217;s statement. \u00a0Anyway, put the pause button there. \u00a0We&#8217;re going to get to the other giant news of the week, and that&#8217;s Russia&#8217;s military deciding to move into Syria. \u00a0Did the U.S. just lose control of the region? \u00a0As if it had it. \u00a0Or did Russia now step into its own quagmire? \u00a0And later, Hillary Clinton joined the cast of <em>Saturday Night Live<\/em> for the opener this season, it was pretty funny.<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Welcome back. US airstrikes killed 19 people at a Doctor\u2019s Without Borders hospital in the city of Kunduz in Afghanistan yesterday. President Obama has offered his deepest condolences, but did not apologized for the airstrikes.Instead he promised to launch an investigation. The United Nations has condemned the incident and even suggested it might amount to a war crime. Doctors Without Borders, who have denied that Taliban fighters who were hiding in the hospital, say that the bombardment went on for more than 30 minutes despite the fact that they were continuously raising the alarm bells with US and Afghan officials about what was going on and their GPS coordinates.<\/p>\n<p>But of course this week elsewhere in the regions, the news has been in Syria. Where on Wednesday with one hour\u2019s notice Russia launched airstrikes in Syria. Focused on anti-Assad fighters, rather than ISIS. And on <em>MTP Daily<\/em>, Republican senate foreign relations chair, Bob Corker, who is not always somebody who tosses bombs over at the Obama administration, could not hide his frustration.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>SEN. BOB CORKER:<\/p>\n<p>I really hope the president doesn\u2019t give another statement because every time he does, nothing happens. Our credibility is diminished and Putin knows nothing is going to happen.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>But on Friday, the president did speak about Russia&#8217;s action in Syria at the White House.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>PRESIDENT OBAMA:<\/p>\n<p>Mr. Putin had to go into Syria not out of strength but out of weakness. \u00a0Because his client, Mr. Assad, was crumbling, and it was insufficient for him simply to send them arms money.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Joining me now is Mike McFaul. \u00a0He&#8217;s of course the former U.S. ambassador to Russia, under President Obama. \u00a0And Stephen Hadley, George W. Bush&#8217;s last national security advisor. \u00a0Gentlemen, welcome to you both. \u00a0Ambassador McFaul, let me start with you. \u00a0And to unpack the president&#8217;s statement there, he said Putin was going in out of a position of weakness because Assad was crumbling. \u00a0By that logic, if Assad was that close to crumbling, did we miss an opportunity to sort of push Assad over the crumbling line six months ago?<\/p>\n<p>MICHAEL MCFAUL:<\/p>\n<p>I would say four years ago, Chuck. \u00a0The real moment or opportunity for change in Syria was when there were hundreds of thousands of peaceful demonstrators. \u00a0Assad looked very weak then. \u00a0ISIS did not exist in Syria at the moment. \u00a0And that was a real opportunity lost.<\/p>\n<p>Six months ago or two weeks ago I think it&#8217;s a much more complex terrain, though I do agree with the president: \u00a0Putin has had the same policy for four years, which is to support Assad. \u00a0He believes that&#8217;s a way to peace and stability in Syria. \u00a0That policy of Putin&#8217;s hasn&#8217;t worked, and so he&#8217;s had to double down with these latest military attacks.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Stephen Hadley, let&#8217;s look at where we are now. \u00a0Obviously, we can go back, and I think everybody&#8217;s back seat driving the president, including Hillary Clinton, on that front. \u00a0Does this mean now that, despite us wanting to say Assad has to go before you can fully defeat ISIS, that we&#8217;re stuck with Assad?<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HADLEY:<\/p>\n<p>Well, I think we need to step back and say what are our objectives here? \u00a0And our objective is there&#8217;s a huge humanitarian crisis that is overwhelming the neighboring states and threatening Europe. \u00a0We have ISIS which controls territory. \u00a0They are training tens of thousands of terrorists that at some point will be coming back at our friends and allies, and potentially against the United States.<\/p>\n<p>And we have a civil war that&#8217;s been going on for four years. \u00a0And as long as that civil war goes on, this chaos and violence will continue. \u00a0So we&#8217;ve really got to step back and say what are our objectives here? \u00a0What do we need to do? \u00a0And I think the first step we need to do is we need to get engaged. \u00a0We\u2019ve been facing absence without lead for the last four years, and the situation is degenerating the way a lot of people have predicted.<\/p>\n<p>So the first step is the United States has to be engaged. \u00a0And if you&#8217;re worried about Russia establishing a sphere of influence and Iranian hegemony, the way to stop that is for the United States to start leading.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Ambassador McFaul, do you think that it&#8217;s possible that we sort of held back in what we wanted to do in Syria and held back a little bit because we didn&#8217;t want to chase the Iranians away from the negotiating table during the nuclear deal?<\/p>\n<p>MICHAEL MCFAUL:<\/p>\n<p>No, I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s a linkage between that at all. \u00a0I think there was, back when I was in the government, a sense that Assad was going to fall. \u00a0And therefore, for us to engage, we would only make that problem worse. \u00a0Having said that, the policy changed a year ago.<\/p>\n<p>I want to point out to your viewers we&#8217;ve had 7,000 attacks in Iraq and Syria against ISIS. \u00a0We&#8217;re fighting that fight, it just hasn&#8217;t achieved the results that we want. \u00a0But we are definitely engaged in a military way against ISIS today in Syria.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And speaking of that policy, there is a bipartisan group of senators that went from Joe Manchin with Democrats to Mike Lee on the Republican side of the aisle who want to introduce legislation to stop the training of moderate rebels. \u00a0That, basically, this policy isn&#8217;t working. \u00a0Obviously, there&#8217;s some evidence that it&#8217;s not working well. \u00a0Where are you on this, Ambassador?<\/p>\n<p>MICHAEL MCFAUL:<\/p>\n<p>I think it would be not prudent right now to stop what we&#8217;re doing. \u00a0We need to have some allies in Syria. \u00a0You know, Putin&#8217;s argument, just to be clear about Putin, he says everybody&#8217;s a terrorist. \u00a0There&#8217;s nobody to work with but Assad.<\/p>\n<p>And my own sense of that is just trying to shore up Assad without an alternative, without a discussion about a political transition, means that the civil war will continue. \u00a0So I agree with Steve, we need to be engaged, but we also need to be engaged on trying to put together a political transition in Syria. \u00a0Because otherwise, it will remain a civil war for a long time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/strong><\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And who&#8217;s at that table, in this political transition? \u00a0I mean, let&#8217;s do a reality check: \u00a0Iran has to be at that table, doesn&#8217;t it? \u00a0Whether we like it or not. \u00a0Russia has to be at that table, whether we like it or not.<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HADLEY:<\/p>\n<p>I think they do. \u00a0The question is, before you get to that table, you have to make it clear that you&#8217;re willing to support the kind of outcome which is inclusive and which involves ultimately Assad leaving. \u00a0It winds down the violence and unifies the country against ISIS.<\/p>\n<p>So, yes, it&#8217;s got to be a regional activity, and a lot of the Europeans need to be involved. \u00a0Our friends and allies in the region need to be involved. \u00a0But the focus needs to be there&#8217;s got to be an entry ticket in terms of a set of principles you need to accept before you get a seat at the table. \u00a0And then we need to see if we can get a broad-based coalition government in place.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Ambassador McFaul, Hillary Clinton called for a no-fly zone at this point. \u00a0President Obama, when he reacted to it, he said it&#8217;s not a half-baked idea but you say things on the campaign trail that you might do differently if you&#8217;re president. \u00a0It was the closest you&#8217;d get to him criticizing that idea. \u00a0What do you make of her proposal of a no-fly zone now?<\/p>\n<p>MICHAEL MCFAUL:<\/p>\n<p>Well, I think it comes out of a sense of frustration that we&#8217;re not achieving our objectives. \u00a0There&#8217;s no argument about what the objectives are in Syria; there&#8217;s an argument about the strategy for achieving them. \u00a0And to consider a no-fly zone, it would have to be a coalition no-fly zone, by the way, not just a unilateral one by the United States. \u00a0At least it should be considered.<\/p>\n<p>And when I was in the government, people would say things on the outside, and we would say publicly we&#8217;d consider that, and then we would think about it. \u00a0So I think it&#8217;s good for the debate that we consider this options right now.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And Stephen Hadley, I&#8217;ve got to get your response to Donald Trump and what he said: \u00a0Middle East would be better off today with Saddam, Gaddafi, and a stronger Assad.<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HADLEY:<\/p>\n<p>You know, it&#8217;s amazing. \u00a0Assad, this began with peaceful demonstrations against Assad&#8217;s brutality in his treatment of his people, and it&#8217;s only when Assad declared war on his people that we got into this cycle and violence. \u00a0And to say that it would be better for a man that has killed over 250,000 people, displaced half of his country, ruined his economy, that it would be better for him to stay in power? \u00a0I mean, it&#8217;s a kind of lesson to the world, &#8220;If you kill enough of your own people, the world will let you stay in power.&#8221; \u00a0That&#8217;s a terrible lesson. \u00a0It&#8217;s not America. \u00a0It&#8217;s not what we stand for.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Stephen Hadley, former Bush administration official; Ambassador Mike McFaul, NBC News contributor and a former ambassador to Russia under the Obama administration, thank you both.<\/p>\n<p>MICHAEL MCFAUL:<\/p>\n<p>I totally agree with Steve, by the way.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You got it. I slept in so I missed whether Stanford won or lost last night, so my apologies for not trumpening.<\/p>\n<p>MICHAEL MCFAUL:<\/p>\n<p>Stanford crushed Arizona.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Fair enough. \u00a0We&#8217;ll be back in a moment with our Endgame segment, and that thing Donald Trump said about why he might someday sort of potentially get out of the race.<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Endgame time. I\u2019m going to start by revisiting Donald Trump\u2019s suggestion that he would get out of the race if his poll numbers started to fall. You know, Mark Leibovich and Rich Lowry, Amy and Ruth I am sorry that you two haven\u2019t written cover stories on Donald Trump this week.<\/p>\n<p>Rich and Mark have&#8211;Mark you did it on the <em>New York Times Magazine<\/em> and Rich in <em>National Journal<\/em> (sic; <em>National Review<\/em>)<em>, <\/em>and you both sort of come at, you both came at him in the similar way. Dismissive, and then you realize you can\u2019t be dismissive.<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>Yea anyone who is dismissive of Donald Trump at this point, certainly in the media, is an idiot. Essentially, look, the guy is leading all the polls, it\u2019s legitimate. I think when you asked him the question, \u201cWhat would it take for you to get out of the race?\u201d You know, it was a surprising answer but also reality-based answer. It was the kind of question that most politicians would duck. They would say, \u201cI intend to win. I intend to be in first&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;the only poll that matters is the one on election day.<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>They would throw all of these cliches out there and that in a way is a window into why so many people find it so thrilling that there\u2019s actually a person that will speak that way.<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>To be a political candidate is to risk, and very often experience, soul-crushing humiliation. And it is not clear at all that that is what Donald Trump signed up for.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s what I take away from it&#8211;Ruth, you sort of mentioned it, he doesn\u2019t desire to be president, he will not accept having to do what John McCain did. Fall in the polls and carry his own luggage.<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>And carry his own&#8211;Donald Trump does not carry his own luggage.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>He made that clear to you by the way.<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>Not like Jimmy Carter carrying his own luggage.<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t even think, I think what he wants about being president&#8211;and he doesn\u2019t need the plane, he doesn\u2019t need the big house&#8211;he wants the adulation of being president. He actually doesn\u2019t want the hard work.<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s the fear that Republicans have, that even if Donald Trump were to lose, if he only loses just a little bit, that he might want to stay in because of that adulation. But, when I heard his remarks about, \u201cYou know there are other things I could do. Look, I\u2019m a billionaire. I\u2019m terrific,&#8221; it actually was echoes of George W. Bush when he said, &#8220;I don&#8217;t need to win. \u00a0I don&#8217;t need this to feed my ego.&#8221; \u00a0A little different, but I think also the public reacts to that well. \u00a0That this guy isn&#8217;t one of these&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Let&#8217;s remember the context. \u00a0Let&#8217;s remember the&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;clich\u00e9-spewing politicians&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;context. \u00a0Bush was saying it in context of running against Al Gore who appeared his whole life was to prepare him for that moment&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>Exactly.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;of running for president and he wanted that contrast. \u00a0Let&#8217;s talk about underneath. \u00a0Dan Balz today, in <em>The Washington Post<\/em>, essentially did what is dangerous here in Washington. \u00a0He says, &#8220;Well, okay, there&#8217;s Carson, Trump, and Fiorina. \u00a0But really, the race is going to come down to Bush, Kasich, and Rubio.&#8221; I think he&#8217;s right too, except I&#8217;m not willing to go out on that limb yet&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>Yes, I think&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;watching this field.<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>Well, look. \u00a0First of all, this is not a moment. \u00a0It&#8217;s now a four-month period. \u00a0You know, people said, &#8220;Well, like Herman Cain and Michele Bachmann, they all had moments in 2012.&#8221; \u00a0No. \u00a0I mean, this is actually now a sustained movement. \u00a0He also has unlimited money. \u00a0I think what Donald Trump is showing people is how you can free yourself up from a lot of headaches, and not to mention a lot of busywork, when you have money. \u00a0And, by the way, he hasn&#8217;t spent any of this yet either.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>No. \u00a0And Ben Carson, by the way, has raised $20 million and now, granted, he had to spend a lot to raise a lot. \u00a0But that&#8217;s more money, cash in hand, than Jeb Bush has.<\/p>\n<p>RICH LOWRY:<\/p>\n<p>Yes, absolutely. \u00a0You go to that conventional wisdom now about Bush and Rubio and Kasich. \u00a0It used to be Bush, Rubio, and Walker, and how did that turn out? \u00a0Didn&#8217;t turn out very well. \u00a0I do think Trump is very vulnerable in Iowa after the tsunami of earned media. \u00a0He&#8217;s just ahead by five points. \u00a0And usually, it&#8217;s not the New York billionaires who know very little about the Bible who thrive in Iowa.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Ruth, very quickly, Bush this week got caught tracking Rubio. \u00a0Rubio&#8217;s campaign kicked him out. \u00a0We now know they are somewhere in Ohio digging through the archives of Kasich. \u00a0Are they being too ham-handed about who they\u2019d fear?<\/p>\n<p>RUTH MARCUS:<\/p>\n<p>I think this is the moment for ham-handedness because they&#8217;re so far down in where they are. \u00a0My quickie prediction, we&#8217;ve spent a lot of time talking about anger and authenticity. \u00a0We&#8217;re going to start talking soon about electability. \u00a0And that&#8217;s when we get to Dan Balz\u2019s undercard.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well we shall see and who knows, maybe next week we\u2019ll be talking about Joe Biden. Speaking on the Democratic race, Hillary Clinton did a little cameo for SNL\u2019s season premiere. Here\u2019s a taste of it.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>So Hillary, what brings you here tonight?<\/p>\n<p>KATE MCKINNON:<\/p>\n<p>Well, I needed to blow off some steam. I&#8217;ve had a hard couple of 22 years.<\/p>\n<p>How \u2018bout you?<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>Me? I&#8217;m just an ordinary citizen who believes the Keystone pipeline will destroy our environment.<\/p>\n<p>KATE MCKINNON:<\/p>\n<p>I agree with you there. It did take me a long time to decide that, but I am against it.<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>Nothing wrong with taking your time, what&#8217;s important is getting it right.<\/p>\n<p>KATE MCKINNON:<\/p>\n<p>Oh Val, I&#8217;m just so darn bummed. All anyone wants to talk about is Donald Trump.<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>Donald Trump? Isn&#8217;t he the one that\u2019s like, \u201cUh, you&#8217;re all losers.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I have to say Amy Holmes, to hear her do an impersonation. I was like, that was fun Hillary, huh?<\/p>\n<p>AMY HOLMES:<\/p>\n<p>Right. Sides of her we didn\u2019t knew existed that she does impersonations. Look, I give her credit for going on Saturday Night Live trying to make herself more relatable, more likeable, and poking fun at herself.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I have to say I was surprised that it was Trump and not Hillary who did&#8211; Hillary not Trump that did the season premiere, Leibo.<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>I would wait, I would just wait. I think that they will get him.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Lorne Michaels is not stupid.<\/p>\n<p>MARK LEIBOVICH:<\/p>\n<p>He is not stupid.<\/p>\n<p>(OVERTALK)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>We shall see. Alright, that\u2019s all for today. Of course, don\u2019t forget to tune into MTP Daily Monday through Friday because if it\u2019s a weekday, it\u2019s also <em>Meet the Press<\/em>. That\u2019s at 5 PM Eastern, MSNBC. We\u2019ll be back next week for the big show. If it\u2019s Sunday, it\u2019s <em>Meet the Press<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>For more information, please contact<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Olivia Petersen<\/p>\n<p>NBC News<\/p>\n<p>202-885-4159<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"mailto:olivia.petersen@nbcuni.com\">olivia.petersen@nbcuni.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>MEET THE PRESS<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/media.ne.cision.com\/l\/lyowyvlr\/www.nbcnews.com\/meet-the-press\">\u201cMeet the Press\u201d<\/a> is where newsmakers come to make news \u2014 setting the political agenda and spotlighting the impact Washington decision-making has on people across the country. \u201cMeet the Press\u201d reaches more than 3 million people every Sunday through its broadcasts and millions more through NBCNews.com, the #TweetThePress interview series, Flipboard, and social media platforms.\u00a0 Chuck Todd is the moderator of &#8220;Meet the Press&#8221; and John Reiss is the executive producer.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Trump on Putin in Syria: \u201cHe\u2019ll get bogged down there\u2026 he\u2019ll be begging to get out\u201d ALSO: Trump: \u201cIf I were doing poorly [in the polls]&#8230; I\u2019d go back to my business\u201d New IA &amp; NH Poll Numbers from NBC News\/Wall Street Journal\/Marist\u00a0 OCT. 4, 2015 &#8212; In a sit down interview in his campaign [&#8230;]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"btn btn-secondary understrap-read-more-link\" href=\"https:\/\/nbcuniversalnewsgroup.com\/nbcnews\/2015\/10\/04\/mtp-trump-its-not-even-a-contest-that-mideast-would-be-more-stable-with-hussein-why-he-would-bow-out-of-2016-race\/\">Read More&#8230;<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> from MTP: TRUMP: \u201cIT\u2019S NOT EVEN A CONTEST\u201d THAT MIDEAST WOULD BE MORE STABLE WITH HUSSEIN &amp; GADDAFI; WHY HE WOULD BOW OUT OF 2016 RACE<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":425,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_feature_clip_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[9],"tags":[4,110],"class_list":["post-979","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-meet-the-press","tag-feature","tag-meet-the-press"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.9 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>MTP: TRUMP: \u201cIT\u2019S NOT EVEN A CONTEST\u201d THAT MIDEAST WOULD BE MORE STABLE WITH HUSSEIN &amp; 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