{"id":682,"date":"2015-02-08T11:55:54","date_gmt":"2015-02-08T16:55:54","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/press.nbcnews.com\/?p=682"},"modified":"2015-02-08T11:55:54","modified_gmt":"2015-02-08T16:55:54","slug":"meet-the-press-2815-sec-kerry-on-iran-talks-no-extsnsion-wo-outlines-of-a-deal-kerry-u-s-on-the-road-to-defeating-isis","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/nbcuniversalnewsgroup.com\/nbcnews\/2015\/02\/08\/meet-the-press-2815-sec-kerry-on-iran-talks-no-extsnsion-wo-outlines-of-a-deal-kerry-u-s-on-the-road-to-defeating-isis\/","title":{"rendered":"“MEET THE PRESS” 2\/8\/15: SEC. KERRY ON IRAN TALKS: NO EXTENSION W\/O ‘OUTLINES’ OF A DEAL + KERRY: U.S. ‘ON THE ROAD’ TO DEFEATING ISIS"},"content":{"rendered":"

Sec. Kerry: \u2018No doubt that assistance of economic kind and other kinds will be going to Ukraine.\u2019<\/span><\/b><\/em><\/p>\n

Sec. Kerry on a 2016 run: \u201cWell, nobody says never.\u00a0 But I mean, I have no concept of it.\u201d<\/span><\/b><\/em><\/p>\n

Fmr. Amb McFaul on Putin & Ukraine: “This is not just a contest about interest, this is a contest about values for him.”<\/span><\/b><\/em><\/p>\n

FEBRUARY 8, 2015 \u2013 Today\u2019s \u201cMeet the Press with Chuck Todd\u201d featured an exclusive interview with Secretary of State John Kerry;<\/span><\/strong> a discussion of religion and politics with author and Executive Editor at Random House, Jon Meacham<\/span><\/strong>; and a panel discussion with Fmr. Amb. Michael McFaul,<\/span><\/strong> NBC News\u2019 Andrea Mitchell,<\/span><\/strong> the BBC\u2019s Katty Kay<\/span><\/strong>, Stephen Henderson<\/span><\/strong>, Editorial Page Editor, Detroit Free Press, and the New York Times\u2019 David Brooks.<\/span><\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Plus, a Nerdscreen on how much a candidate\u2019s age matters when running for president. http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1xPRYaw<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

Below are highlights, video clips, and a rush transcript of today\u2019s program. Additional show video will be available online at MeetThePressNBC.com.<\/span><\/p>\n

# # #<\/span><\/p>\n

KERRY ON IRAN NUCLEAR TALKS & POSSIBILTY OF EXTENDING THE TEMPORARY DEAL:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

VIDEO: http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1usbEG9<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWell, the only chance I can see of an extension at this point in time would be that you really have the outlines of the agreement. But if we’re not able to make the fundamental decisions that have to be made over the course of the next weeks, literally, I think it would be impossible to extend.\u00a0 I don’t think we would want to extend at that point.\u00a0 Either you make the decisions to prove your program is a peaceful one, or if you’re unable to do that, it may tell a story that none of us want to hear.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

# # #<\/span><\/p>\n

KERRY ON COMBATTING ISIS\u2014ARE WE WINNING?<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

VIDEO: http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/18ZCR9G<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWell, I believe we are on the road to, yes.\u00a0 I absolutely do.\u00a0 And I think the evidence is not in my saying it. \u00a0But it’s in the facts of what is happening.\u00a0 First of all, the coalition is strong, more committed than ever, particularly in the aftermath of the burning of the Jordanian pilot.<\/span><\/p>\n

The resounding reaffirmations of commitment throughout the Arab world have been heartening and strong. here’s what’s happened.\u00a0 22% of the populated areas that they held have been taken back already.\u00a0 And that’s without launching what we would call a major offensive.<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s with the efforts of the Iraqi army, as it’s being retrained and standing up again to reclaim some territory as they begin to probe.\u00a0 We have taken out a significant proportion of the top leadership of ISIS.\u00a0 Their command and control facilities have been attacked, interrupting their command and control.<\/span><\/p>\n

They no longer can communicate the way they were, as openly.\u00a0 They no longer travel in convoys, they was they were, as openly.\u00a0 Or where they do, they’re at great risk. Now, there’s a lot more to do.\u00a0 We have said, since the beginning, this is a long-term operation, not a short-term one, BUT we believe everything, including the governing process in Iraq itself, is moving in the right direction.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

# # #<\/span><\/p>\n

KERRY ON US SUPPORT AND ASSISTANCE TO UKRAINE:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

VIDEO: http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/18YiFVM<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWell, I’m not going to go into precisely what items are going to be provided to Ukraine. But I have no doubt that additional assistance of economic kind and other kinds will be going to Ukraine.\u00a0 And we do so understanding that there is no military solution.\u00a0 The solution is a political, diplomatic one.\u00a0 But President Putin’s got to make the decision to take an off ramp.\u00a0 And we have to make it clear to him that we are absolutely committed to the sovereignty and integrity of Ukraine no matter what.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

# # #<\/span><\/p>\n

KERRY ON ANY SCENARIO THAT HE WOULD RUN FOR PRESIDENT IN 2016:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

VIDEO: http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/18ZCR9G<\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

I have no scenario whatsoever in my mind.\u00a0 I haven’t thought about it.\u00a0 As you can tell, pretty busy.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I know.\u00a0 Is it a never say never?<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, nobody says never.\u00a0 But I mean, I have no concept of it.\u00a0 Thank you, Chuck.<\/span><\/p>\n

# # #<\/span><\/p>\n

Below is a RUSH transcript of this morning\u2019s broadcast — mandatory attribution to NBC News\u2019 \u201cMeet the Press.\u201d A final transcript of the program will be available at www.MeetThePressNBC.com<\/span><\/a>.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

MEET THE PRESS – FEBRUARY 8, 2015<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

This Sunday, crises from ISIS to Iran to Ukraine.<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

President Putin’s got to make the decision to take an off-ramp.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

The Obama administration calls for strategic patience.\u00a0 My exclusive interview with Secretary of State John Kerry.\u00a0 Also, the measles outbreak, the debate over government mandates like vaccines for children.\u00a0 Is personal liberty being denied in the name of the public good?<\/span><\/p>\n

MEGAN HEIMER (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

Mandating vaccines opens up the door for them to mandate all sorts of other things, what my child eats, where my child goes to school.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Plus violence in the name of religion, as the world reacts with horror to the atrocities committed by ISIS.\u00a0 Was President Obama right to point out Christianity\u2019s violent past?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

PRESIDENT OBAMA (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

Remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I’m Chuck Todd, and joining me this morning to provide insight and analysis are David Brooks of The New York Times, Andrea Mitchell, my colleague here at NBC, the BBC’s Katty Kay, and Stephen Henderson of The Detroit Free Press.\u00a0 Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANNOUNCER:<\/span><\/p>\n

From NBC News in Washington, this is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Good morning.\u00a0 It’s been a weekend of tense diplomacy.\u00a0 And we’re going to bring you my exclusive interview with Secretary of State John Kerry in just a minute.\u00a0 The debate of American aid worker Kayla Mueller remains unknown.\u00a0 Two days after ISIS claimed that she had been killed in a Jordanian missile strike in Syria, ISIS still has offered no proof, and the State Department says it has been unable to verify the claim.<\/span><\/p>\n

Meanwhile, peace talks have been taking place at the Munich Security Conference, in an effort to end the intensifying fighting between Russia and Ukraine.\u00a0 France and Germany’s leaders are now warning that the conflict could develop into a total war that could spill beyond Ukraine’s borders into eastern Europe unless a peace deal is reached.<\/span><\/p>\n

On Friday, President Obama unveiled his updated national security strategy.\u00a0 It’s a document that has been criticized by Republicans for outlining too cautious of an approach.\u00a0 Here’s the president’s national security advisor, Susan Rice, outlining the new strategy.<\/span><\/p>\n

SUSAN RICE (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

While the dangers we face may be more numerous and varied, they are not of the existential nature we confronted during World War II, or during the Cold War.\u00a0 We cannot afford to be buffeted by alarmism and a nearly instantaneous news cycle.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yesterday, I spoke with Secretary of State John Kerry from Munich, and I started by asking him whether the U.S. is winning in our goal of diminishing and eventually destroying ISIS.<\/span><\/p>\n

(BEGIN TAPE)<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, I believe we are on the road to, yes.\u00a0 I absolutely do.\u00a0 And I think the evidence is not in my saying it.\u00a0 But it’s in the facts of what is happening.\u00a0 First of all, the coalition is strong, more committed than ever, particularly in the aftermath of the burning of the Jordanian pilot.<\/span><\/p>\n

The resounding reaffirmations of commitment throughout the Arab world have been heartening and strong. here’s what’s happened.\u00a0 22% of the populated areas that they held have been taken back already.\u00a0 And that’s without launching what we would call a major offensive.<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s with the efforts of the Iraqi army, as it’s being retrained and standing up again to reclaim some territory as they begin to probe.\u00a0 We have taken out a significant proportion of the top leadership of ISIS.\u00a0 Their command and control facilities have been attacked, interrupting their command and control.<\/span><\/p>\n

They no longer can communicate the way they were, as openly.\u00a0 They no longer travel in convoys, they was they were, as openly.\u00a0 Or where they do, they’re at great risk.Now, there’s a lot more to do.\u00a0 We have said, since the beginning, this is a long-term operation, not a short-term one, BUT we believe everything, including the governing process in Iraq itself, is moving in the right direction.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I was just going to say, not everybody agrees that the U.S. is doing enough.\u00a0 My colleague, Richard Engel, had an interview with the head of the Kurdish province in Iraq.\u00a0 I want you to take a listen to what he said about the war.<\/span><\/p>\n

RICHARD ENGEL (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

President Obama said there is a strategy in place to degrade and defeat ISIS. Do you believe him?<\/span><\/p>\n

CHANCELLOR BARZANI (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

Well he\u2019s the President of the United States.<\/span><\/p>\n

RICHARD ENGEL (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

But do you believe there is a strategy in place to do that? \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

CHANCELLOR BARZANI (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

I hope there is.\u00a0 But we need that strategy to be translated into action.<\/span><\/p>\n

RICHARD ENGEL (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

So you’re not seeing it.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHANCELLOR BARZANI (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

Not yet.<\/span><\/p>\n

RICHARD ENGEL (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

You’re not seeing the strategy.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHANCELLOR BARZANI (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

We have not seen–<\/span><\/p>\n

RICHARD ENGEL (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

But the great–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHANCELLOR BARZANI (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

Not yet.\u00a0 I mean, so far, we have not seen any serious action that can quickly defeat ISIS.<\/span><\/p>\n

RICHARD ENGEL (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

Or slowly?\u00a0 Can it work over the long term?<\/span><\/p>\n

CHANCELLOR BARZANI (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

It can.\u00a0 It can.\u00a0 But once again, I mean, we are sacrificing more lives and putting many innocent lives at risk by allowing ISIS to survive for a longer period.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, Secretary, that was Chancellor Barzani.\u00a0 That’s what he was telling Richard Engel.\u00a0 He’s essentially saying they need more support.\u00a0 They need swifter action from the United States.\u00a0 What do you say in response?<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, you heard the key word there, which was not quickly.\u00a0 But he said, over time, it can work.\u00a0 And we have said, consistently, that this is going to take a certain amount of time.\u00a0 Now, why?\u00a0 Is that because we want it to take an amount of time?\u00a0 No.<\/span><\/p>\n

The fact is that the Iraqi army itself needs to be retrained and stood up.\u00a0 There have to be ground troops involved in order to win this victory.\u00a0 And it is clear they’re not going to be American.\u00a0 They’re not going to be British.\u00a0 They’re not going to be French and European.<\/span><\/p>\n

They are going to be Iraqi.\u00a0 And that’s the way the Iraqis want it.\u00a0 But they’re not ready to move yet.\u00a0 And it would be a great mistake, strategically, for them to move before they are ready.\u00a0 So I understand Mr. Barzani’s impatience.\u00a0 I fully understand it.\u00a0 The Peshmerga have been particularly brave and courageous.<\/span><\/p>\n

We have supplied them with an enormous amount of ammunition, weapons, other things.\u00a0 And others are supplying them, our allies.\u00a0 So I think, as we said from the beginning, people need to be recognizing the importance of putting in place a strategy that can win.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, you’re pleading for patience.\u00a0 And it was something that a former colleague of yours in the U.S. Senate, Lindsey Graham, was sort of mocking.\u00a0 And it had to do more with a speech that Susan Rice gave on Friday, outlining the new national security strategy.<\/span><\/p>\n

And he tweeted this.\u00a0 He said, “I doubt ISIL, the Iranian mullahs, or Vladimir Putin will be intimidated by President Obama’s strategy of strategic patience.”\u00a0 And the other implication here, Mr. Secretary, is that patience, waiting too long, is what allowed an ISIS to gain a foothold, that we didn’t react soon enough.\u00a0 And now, we’re paying the price for it.<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, ISIS gained a foothold that it gained in Iraq, principally, because the army had been personalized and fundamentally become a sectarian entity.\u00a0 And so within Sunni areas, unfortunately, there weren’t enough people with a stake in the game in order to stand their ground.\u00a0 Because that wasn’t their army.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so there are a lot of reasons for how we got to where we are today.\u00a0 What we need to understand is that we have moved from instant one to buttress Iraq, to build a coalition.\u00a0 People were astonished that we were able to get five Sunni nations to join us in taking on the challenge of Syria.<\/span><\/p>\n

I think we have put together a strong coalition.\u00a0 I just don’t buy into that.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I know that Vice President Biden gave a speech at the Munich conference essentially on Ukraine, saying that the United States would be there to provide assistance to Ukraine.\u00a0 He didn’t quite outline it.\u00a0 But obviously, it was an indictment of what Russia’s been doing in there, the weapons they’ve been providing.\u00a0 How soon will the United States be providing more security assistance, heavier artillery, to Ukraine?<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, I’m not going to go into precisely what items are going to be provided to Ukraine. But I have no doubt that additional assistance of economic kind and other kinds will be going to Ukraine.\u00a0 And we do so understanding that there is no military solution.\u00a0 The solution is a political, diplomatic one.\u00a0 But President Putin’s got to make the decision to take an off ramp.\u00a0 And we have to make it clear to him that we are absolutely committed to the sovereignty and integrity of Ukraine no matter what.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Do you think believe President Putin is a rational actor here?\u00a0 Because you outline the economic sanctions and the drop in oil have had a huge impact.\u00a0 And yet, it has not changed his behavior.<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, I’m not going to get into characterizations, except people can draw their own conclusions based on what they see.\u00a0 He is leaving the global community with no choice but to continue to either put more sanctions in place or to provide additional assistance to Ukraine.\u00a0 And hopefully, he will come to a point where he realizes the damage he is doing is not just to the global order and the process.<\/span><\/p>\n

But he is doing enormous damage to Russia itself.\u00a0 And I’m convinced, I think most people are convinced, that each month that goes by, that will catch up to him, ultimately, in Russia itself.\u00a0 The nationalistic card is playing for the moment.\u00a0 But ultimately, people want their lives to be better.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Quickly, last question.\u00a0 The Iran nuclear talks, I know that’s also front and center.\u00a0 You have a very, very busy agenda these days.\u00a0 Is it just a deal or no deal?\u00a0 Or is there a chance that you extend the current sort of temporary deal that’s in place now?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, the only chance I can see of an extension at this point in time would be that you really have the outlines of the agreement. But if we’re not able to make the fundamental decisions that have to be made over the course of the next weeks, literally, I think it would be impossible to extend.\u00a0 I don’t think we would want to extend at that point.\u00a0 Either you make the decisions to prove your program is a peaceful one, or if you’re unable to do that, it may tell a story that none of us want to hear.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Is there any scenario that you would run for president in 2016?<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

I have no scenario whatsoever in my mind.\u00a0 I haven’t thought about it.\u00a0 As you can tell, pretty busy.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I know.\u00a0 Is it a never say never?<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, nobody says never.\u00a0 But I mean, I have no concept of it.\u00a0 Thank you, Chuck.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

All right.\u00a0 Secretary Kerry, safe travels.\u00a0 Thank you, Secretary.<\/span><\/p>\n

JOHN KERRY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Thank you, sir.\u00a0 Appreciate it.<\/span><\/p>\n

(END TAPE)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

And this morning, what’s being seen as a last ditch effort to salvage a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine, it’s been announced the leaders of Russia, Ukraine, France and Germany — no United States — will attend a summit in Minsk, Belarus, on Wednesday.\u00a0 I’m joined now by Michael McFaul, he\u2019s the former U.S. ambassador to Russia, and of course the panel is here, David, Andrea, Katty and Stephen.\u00a0 But Ambassador McFaul, let me start with you.\u00a0 We talked, you heard me ask Secretary Kerry about, essentially, is Vladimir Putin a rational actor here.\u00a0 How do you answer that question?<\/span><\/p>\n

MICHAEL MCFAUL:<\/span><\/p>\n

He’s a rational actor.\u00a0 He’s also very emotional, like most people, by the way. He’s playing a long-term game here with multiple objectives over a long period of time.\u00a0 I think the kind of fundamental tension that you see is that the West, we want to solve the problem, we want a deal, we want a peace plan.\u00a0 Putin’s perfectly happy not to have a peace plan, to let this linger, to let it fester.\u00a0 And that will help him achieve other goals.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

There was a report earlier this week that there is some secret dossier from a war college examination that Vladimir Putin has– might have Asperger’s Syndrome.\u00a0 Now we actually e-mailed a professor, Simon Baron Cohen, director of The Autism Research Center in Cambridge, who, by the way, is a relative of the comedian Sacha Baron Cohen.\u00a0 And he said this:\u00a0 “The claim that Putin has Asperger’s Syndrome, based solely on a movement analysis, is unlikely to stand up to valid scientific scrutiny.”\u00a0 But obviously, you guys do this.\u00a0 The intelligence community tries to assess– leaders– emotionally or psychologically.\u00a0 What is the psychological profile of Vladimir Putin that you’ve read?<\/span><\/p>\n

MICHAEL MCFAUL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, I’ve read lots of them over many years.\u00a0 And let me give you my kind of base analysis is that he’s a person who feels aggrieved, who feels like the West helped to destroy the Soviet Union.\u00a0 He sees the world in zero sum terms.\u00a0 And he assigns a lot of power to our covert capabilities.\u00a0 He’s obsessed with the C.I.A..<\/span><\/p>\n

So with respect to Ukraine, he thinks that we led the coup in Ukraine.\u00a0 The Ukrainians in his view had nothing to do with it, it was all the C.I.A..\u00a0 And therefore, what you see him doing today, first in Crimea and now with his proxies in eastern Ukraine, that is him striking back against what he thinks his American-led imperialism.<\/span><\/p>\n

The second really important thing, Chuck, he’s become much more conservative over the last several years, in my view.\u00a0 And by that, I mean just a small “C” conservative.\u00a0 And he sees the West as the kind of decadent, liberal West.\u00a0 And therefore, this is not just a contest about interests, this is also a contest about values for him.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

All right.\u00a0 I’m going to bring in the panel.\u00a0 Andrea Mitchell, we are three or four days away, Angela Merkel, actually, the German chancellor’s, going to be here in the United States.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I think she’s on her way now.\u00a0 She is the one doing everything to stop the U.S. from arming Ukraine here.\u00a0 It really is sort of a clash here.\u00a0 She is trying to be the peacekeeper of Europe.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

And the United States is united– this is not one where there’s a Republican\/Democrat divide about arming Ukraine.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, there is that divide, somewhat.\u00a0 But the fact is that–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Not big.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Not big.\u00a0 This is Merkel and Hollande, who went on Friday, saw Putin, came back.\u00a0 She gave a very strong speech in Munich saying, “Do not arm, this is will escalate everything.”\u00a0 And she’s coming here to tell President Obama that.\u00a0 But she’s meeting with the Senate Foreign Relations Committee first on Monday morning, tomorrow morning.<\/span><\/p>\n

The fact is that– that decision is fraught with problems.\u00a0 There’s a lot of support in Congress.\u00a0 The bipartisan delegation in Munich of senators all were in favor of arming.\u00a0 And they’re talking about radar, they’re talking about drones, surveillance drones, they’re talking about anti-tank missiles.<\/span><\/p>\n

But the fact on the ground is that they are going back to Moscow on Wednesday to again negotiate with Putin.\u00a0 Putin and these separatists, so-called separatists, these Russians, have taken 500 square miles since the ceasefire was negotiated in Minsk, and, you know, they are taking the ground.\u00a0 And the big definition is how much of a demilitarized zone will they get to take.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

And it does sound like Merkel’s willing to sort of–<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

–give the Russians more.\u00a0 This divide between United States and Europe on Ukraine is, I guess, much wider than it was before, Katty.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

It is wider.\u00a0 And you have the British Foreign Secretary this morning being quoted as saying, again, that he opposes the idea of arming the Ukrainian government.\u00a0 The fear in Europe is that you put arms in a volatile situation, the Ukrainians cannot win this militarily.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

And all they’re doing is upping the stakes.\u00a0 You’re hearing European leaders talking about making cannon fodder out of Ukrainian soldiers that you’re sending on a mission with– American arms, which increases America’s role in this.\u00a0 And what’s the endgame?\u00a0 You’re not thinking two or three steps ahead.\u00a0 You’re not thinking about escalation.\u00a0 And the realization that President Putin, it matters much more to him to keep Ukraine than it matters to the West to lose Ukraine.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I guess, David, though, that this is sort of what happened.\u00a0 Do you sort of appease Putin?\u00a0 I mean, you know, I hate to throw the A word around, because it gets, I think– but is Europe appeasing Putin?<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, America’s from Mars, Europe\u2019s from Venus, as I\u2019ve said before.\u00a0 You know, I’m for arming.\u00a0 I think we should have armed them.\u00a0 Putin is driven, as Michael said, from quasi-theological, quasi-realist versions.\u00a0 I’m told he’s being strongly pushed by a security apparatus.\u00a0 We’re not going to defeat him, as Katty says.\u00a0 But we can raise the cost.<\/span><\/p>\n

And there’s no way he’s gonna seriously come to the table as long as he’s winning on the battlefields.\u00a0 And so this worked with Milosevic.\u00a0 This has worked before.\u00a0 But you’ve got to raise the cost for these guys.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Stephen Henderson, you’re the editorial page editor of The Detroit Free Press.\u00a0\u00a0 This decision is made, what do you write?<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

I think, you know, arming the Ukrainians makes some sense.\u00a0 You don’t want to do it unilaterally.\u00a0 You want to get the European allies–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

So you have a problem if European allies don’t support–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

I think that’s a fool’s errand.\u00a0 You know, that’s the kind of action that we’ve seen come back to bite us in recent here’s.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, Ambassador McFaul, have you have the last word.\u00a0 Where are we headed here?\u00a0 Are we going to arm them?<\/span><\/p>\n

MICHAEL MCFAUL:<\/span><\/p>\n

My guess is yes.\u00a0 And I do support that.\u00a0 I think the Ukrainians should have a vote in their own security, by the way.\u00a0 But where we’re headed is we’re going to be talking about this for months and here’s to come.\u00a0 I don’t see this resolving any time soon.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Ambassador McFaul, coming to us from Stanford.\u00a0 I appreciate it.\u00a0 We’ll be back.\u00a0 We’ve got a lot more.\u00a0 So panel, we’ll hit the pause button here.\u00a0 When we come back, two likely presidential candidates question the value of vaccinating children.\u00a0 Sort of.\u00a0 It did spark a national debate.\u00a0 That’s all coming up next.<\/span><\/p>\n

***Commercial Break***<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

And welcome back.\u00a0 Both the British philosopher John Stuart Mill and Supreme Court Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes cited the example of shouting fire in a crowded theater as a moment when personal freedom should be restricted for the greater good.\u00a0 And that fundamental argument about what role the government should play in our lives was resurrected this week when two presidential candidates, Rand Paul and Chris Christie, raised questions over the wisdom of government mandating vaccines for children.\u00a0 All this coming against the backdrop of an outbreak of measles right here in the United States.<\/span><\/p>\n

(BEGIN TAPE)<\/span><\/p>\n

SINGING VOICES:<\/span><\/p>\n

Buckle up for safety, buckle up.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD (V\/O):<\/span><\/p>\n

From the debate over seatbelt laws–<\/span><\/p>\n

CRASH DUMMY #1:<\/span><\/p>\n

Larry, for years, have been proving how safety belts save lives.\u00a0 But nobody’s listening.<\/span><\/p>\n

CRASH DUMMY #2:<\/span><\/p>\n

Sure they are.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD (V\/O):<\/span><\/p>\n

To the efforts to ban smoking in public places.<\/span><\/p>\n

MALE VOICE #1:<\/span><\/p>\n

There\u2019s this whole big thing about secondary smoke. How\u2019s that going to–smoke’s going right up in the air.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD (V\/O):<\/span><\/p>\n

The question of how far government can limit personal freedom to protect public health is a familiar tug-of-war.<\/span><\/p>\n

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG:<\/span><\/p>\n

If you want to eat a lot and get fat, you have a right to do it.\u00a0 But our job as government is to inform the public.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD (V\/O):<\/span><\/p>\n

The limits of what critics call The Nanny State were tested when former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg tried and failed to ban oversized sodas.\u00a0 Now, with confidence in public institutions near historic lows, the debate over the appropriate role of government has touched a public health issue where scientists are in near universal agreement:\u00a0 Vaccines.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANTHONY FAUCI:<\/span><\/p>\n

You have one of the most highly effective vaccines against any virus.\u00a0 And you have a highly contagious disease, measles, that can have serious complications.\u00a0 So to me, it’s really a slam dunk.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD (V\/O):<\/span><\/p>\n

But a small yet significant percentage of parents aren’t listening.\u00a0 In 17 states, preschool vaccination rates are below 90%, the baseline goals set by federal health officials.\u00a0 Last year, 644 measles cases were reported in 27 states, a 20-year high.\u00a0 And this year’s off to a bad start.<\/span><\/p>\n

SETH MNOOKIN:<\/span><\/p>\n

In some ways, I think we can say that vaccines have been a victim of their own success.\u00a0 If you have a child today, you’re not likely to have lived during a time when thousands of Americans were infected every year and hospitalized every year.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD (V\/O):<\/span><\/p>\n

The anti-vaccine movement gained steam in 1998 when a now-discredited study linked the measles shot to autism.\u00a0 That medical journal later retracted it, calling it “utterly false.”<\/span><\/p>\n

MEGAN HEIMER:<\/span><\/p>\n

I believe many parents do not trust the CDC or the government or think that they’re putting our best intentions first.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD (V\/O):<\/span><\/p>\n

Megan Heimer is a mother of two toddlers and an anti-vaccine advocate.\u00a0 She and her husband have chosen not to vaccinate their children, even though he performs vaccinations at the clinic where he works as a family doctor.<\/span><\/p>\n

MEGAN HEIMER:<\/span><\/p>\n

Mandating vaccinations opens up the door for them to mandate all sorts of other things, what my child eats, where my child goes to school, how often my child sees a doctor<\/span><\/p>\n

SETH MNOOKIN:<\/span><\/p>\n

The vast majority of parents, Republican and Democrat, vaccinate their children.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD (V\/O):<\/span><\/p>\n

But the fact that the science is clear hasn’t stopped politicians from pandering to this small minority.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHRIS CHRISTIE:<\/span><\/p>\n

We vaccinate ours.\u00a0 But I also understand that parents need to have some measure of choice in things as well.<\/span><\/p>\n

RAND PAUL:<\/span><\/p>\n

I’ve heard of many tragic cases of walking, talking, normal children who’ve wound up with profound mental disorders after vaccines.\u00a0 I’m not arguing vaccines are a bad idea.\u00a0 I think they’re a good thing.\u00a0 But I think the parents should have some input.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD (V\/O):<\/span><\/p>\n

After criticism, both Christie and Paul jumped to clarify their comments.\u00a0 Paul posted this picture of himself getting a booster shot.\u00a0 Christie’s office put out a statement saying, quote, “There is no question kids should be vaccinated.”<\/span><\/p>\n

(END TAPE)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

And of course during the ’07 and ’08 campaign, both candidates, Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, were cautious on vaccinations, citing the concerns about the autism link at the time.\u00a0 Katty, first of all, is this vaccination debate, is this happening in Europe as much as it happens here?<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, it could happen in Britain, of course, because the original study came out in Britain, which is now being called the most dangerous medical hoax in the last 100 years, that that study, which is being retracted, has caused so much damage.\u00a0 Look, the science is absolutely clear.\u00a0 If you want to keep the public safe, 92% of people need to be vaccinated against measles.\u00a0 Some people can’t be.\u00a0 Their immune systems–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Sure.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

–don’t allow them to be.\u00a0 Those who choose not to be are putting their own children at risk, and they’re putting other children at risk, as well.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Stephen, I imagine you wrote about this, this week.<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.\u00a0 This is a pretty clear public issue.\u00a0 It is not a freedom issue.\u00a0 Think of the things that the government mandates that we do already.\u00a0 Lots of things.\u00a0 This is one of the ones that shouldn’t be debated.\u00a0 And it’s really disappointing to see people who want to lead the country, pander this way, I think there’s a real question there about pandering versus leadership.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

You know, I feel like, David, that this is the perfect storm of what happens when we’ve combined the way social media can spread misinformation, people doing–\u00a0 the more research they do, the more you can find your biased research.\u00a0 What presidential candidates pandering to local fringes, naturalists on the left.\u00a0 You know, we’ve seen what Beverly Hills is like, one of the more lower vaccination rates.\u00a0 And of course your anti- government movement.\u00a0 And then the trust issue with leaders.<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I you heard that woman talked about, “I can’t trust the CDC.”\u00a0 What?\u00a0 If you can’t trust what the CDC says, we’ve got a problem in America, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

They’re nefarious down there.\u00a0 Yeah, no, I wonder if there’s a vaccine for pandering.\u00a0 We could open up a little shop down there on every corner.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

No, I agree, it starts with the distrust.\u00a0 Distrust of institutions.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

A lack of common sense about our common community.\u00a0 Like, the air we breathe, that is what we have in common.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

The microbes and things that travel, that’s what we have in common.\u00a0 And with them the disgusting things, the way, you know, Rand Paul knows the truth about this.\u00a0 Chris Christie knows the truth.\u00a0 Glenn Beck has been mouthing off about this.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Oh!<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

They know the truth about this.\u00a0 They’re doing it for a media strategy.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

For political viability.\u00a0 And it seems to me a test of integrity and leadership is telling people the truth, even if you’re trying to great their–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

You know, it’s funny you said that Glenn Beck– let me play this Glenn Beck quote from earlier this week.<\/span><\/p>\n

(BEGIN AUDIO)<\/span><\/p>\n

GLENN BECK:<\/span><\/p>\n

The measles hoax?\u00a0 Is it possible we have been lied to about the measles, this outbreak, and that we are now being told all kinds of things for one purpose, for the herd mentality, to get us all to grab our children and obey the government?<\/span><\/p>\n

(END AUDIO)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

You know, it’s interesting here, Andrea, before I get you to react to this, we actually surveyed– the Political Unit.\u00a0 We surveyed every member of Congress.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Every member of Congress.\u00a0 About half of them got back to us.\u00a0 Not a single one, not a single office that responded to us said that they didn’t vaccinate their children.\u00a0 Every one of them did.\u00a0 So these elected leaders, do as they do, not as they say?<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Rand Paul is a doctor.\u00a0 He’s a medical person.\u00a0 I mean he doesn’t get a pass at all.\u00a0 Both Obama and Hillary Clinton, in the ’08 campaign, both sort of tried to hedge it on a–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

And you know how that happens?\u00a0 Because they’re raising money out in California, and we know it’s some of the more prominent donors in this.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

I’ve got to tell you, I am the daughter of someone who had polio back in the day.\u00a0 And we were vaccinated.\u00a0 Our parents were so intent on vaccinating us when the Salk vaccine came out.\u00a0 Because we knew, and we came out of the generation that knew, the horrors of these kinds of diseases.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

And that\u2019s the irony. There are countries in Africa where they have higher vaccination rates than–<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

–than here in the United States.\u00a0 Because when a people really need it, and they see the effects that measles can have on their community, they will make sure their children are vaccinated.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Stephen, you wanted to jump in.<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah, and Michigan is one of the states that has a really low rate of vaccination.\u00a0 Ann Arbor, Michigan, where the University of Michigan is–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Intellectual elite.<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s right.\u00a0 Has a real problem with this in its schools.\u00a0 It is not– this is not about unintelligent or ignorant people.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s a deeply held emotional belief.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Wow, it is something else.\u00a0 And I guess this, it’s the issue of a larger issue of sort of personal freedom versus the public good, which does do divide the two parties.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

How about seat belts?<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

But I would say it’s a trust issue.\u00a0 If you asked Americans, “Do you trust government to do the right thing most of the time,” through the 20th century, 70-80%, now it’s down to 23%.\u00a0 Can you trust most of the people around you?\u00a0 It’s plummeted.\u00a0 And you know the group with this lowest level of trust, it’s not old people, it’s people in their 20s.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

No, I know.\u00a0 That’s what I mean.\u00a0 This is an important discussion, not because of the issue of vaccination, because of this issue in collective community trust.\u00a0 All right.\u00a0 When we come back, was President Obama right to cite the Crusades as an example of people justifying their actions in the name of Christ?\u00a0 That debate is next.<\/span><\/p>\n

***Commercial Break***<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Welcome back.\u00a0 The annual National Prayer Breakfast brings together the president with faith leaders of all walks.\u00a0 It’s not supposed to be a controversial event.\u00a0 But during the Obama years, it has always seemed to attract a little bit of extra attention.\u00a0 This week, the moment that grabbed headlines was when President Obama referenced The Crusades in pointing out that violation in the name of religion is not unique to Islam.<\/span><\/p>\n

PRESIDENT OBAMA (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

Unless we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during The Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ.\u00a0 And our home country, slavery, from Jim Crow, all too often was justified in the name of Christ.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

That drew criticism from many Republican, including a couple of possible candidates in 2016.\u00a0 Former Senator Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania said the remarks by the president, quote, “were inappropriate.\u00a0 And his choice of venue was insulting to every person of faith at a time when Christians are being crucified, beheaded and persecuted across the Middle East.”<\/span><\/p>\n

Another Republican, Governor Bobby Jindal of Louisiana said, “The Medieval Christian threat is under control, Mr. President.\u00a0 Please deal with the radical Islamic threat today.”\u00a0 And former New York Mayor, Rudy Giuliani, responded this way from on Fox News.<\/span><\/p>\n

RUDY GIULIANI (ON TAPE):<\/span><\/p>\n

Actually the wrong thing at absolutely the wrong time.\u00a0 And the president is as weak a historian as he is a president, and as a weak a theologian.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, I’m joined by Jon Meacham.\u00a0 He’s executive editor at Random House.\u00a0 But he’s also author of many books, including American Gospel:\u00a0 God, the Founding Fathers and the Making of a Nation.\u00a0 I don’t know if there’s any person that understands the cross section of religion and American politics better.\u00a0 Well John, let’s pick up on Rudy Giuliani’s quote there.\u00a0 Said the President’s not a good historian and not a good theologian.\u00a0 What do you say?\u00a0 Fact check him.<\/span><\/p>\n

JON MEACHAM:<\/span><\/p>\n

Fact check him.\u00a0 Well, The Crusades were not good, I think is a fairly safe bet.\u00a0 Complicated, two centuries, 1095 to the end of the 13th century.\u00a0 Urban the Second was the Pope, who’s one of the central figures.\u00a0 A lot of scholarly debate about how much of it was about religion itself, how much of it was of re-conquest of Muslim lands, how much of it was colonization, a search for wealth, in which religion became a justifying force?\u00a0 Complicated debate.<\/span><\/p>\n

What is not complicated is that, on the Christian Crusades, there were many, many atrocities.\u00a0 What I think the president failed to mention was, or what he did fail to mention, was that the Crusades were, in some ways, an exception to a rule.\u00a0 And the rule of Christian history in the Middle Ages forward into the modern era, was one of Christian humanism.<\/span><\/p>\n

The Crusades ended, and the Renaissance began.\u00a0 The idea of Aquinas.\u00a0 And Dante was born shortly after the end of the Crusades.\u00a0 So the idea that Christian faith had a huge amount to contribute to the rise of what ultimately became democratic capitalism is inarguable.\u00a0 So if you’re going to start this debate, it’s better not to do it with one or two sentences.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, it’s interesting.\u00a0 So Jay Michaelson of The Religious News Service wrote this analysis.\u00a0 And I want to read it to you, because I wonder, if the president had said it this way, if there’d be less debate.\u00a0 He said, “The other narrative is that all people, all creeds, all nations, contain elements of moderation and extremism.\u00a0 Thankfully, racist Christian extremists are today a tiny minority within American Christianity.\u00a0 But only 100 years ago, they were as popular among American Christians as the Islamic State is among Muslims today.\u00a0 In the battle against Islamic extremism, it is extremism that is the enemy.\u00a0 Christians should not be insulted by the facts of history, rater, all of us should be inspired by them to recognize the dangers of extremism, wherever they lie.”\u00a0 Had the president explained it that way, is there no fear?<\/span><\/p>\n

JON MEACHAM:<\/span><\/p>\n

There’s probably less fear.\u00a0 My question is why he felt compelled to bring this up at all.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I have my own theory.\u00a0 He’s not a big fan of the prayer breakfast, I think.\u00a0 And I think he almost enjoys creating a rhetorical debate.<\/span><\/p>\n

JON MEACHAM:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes.\u00a0 And so he brings up, unquestionably, the sins of Christianity, which are many.\u00a0 And part of the drama of religion is trying to live up to an ideal, but knowing that, on this side of paradise, we’re always going to fall short.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so I do think that, when you’re talking about politics, when you’re talking about civilization shifts, which is what is going on here, the lesson out of Christianity, to my mind, is that Christianity managed to reform itself through the years.\u00a0 Dark chapters, but ultimately working towards the light.\u00a0 And the hope here is that Islam itself will find its own sense of reformation and push forward.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Did you find the extreme pushback on the president, because there’s been some– almost as if– part of this criticism all goes because they believe the Obama administration doesn’t acknowledge the religious aspect of this.<\/span><\/p>\n

JON MEACHAM:<\/span><\/p>\n

Sure.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

And then some Obama folks will push back and say too many people on the right want a religious war.\u00a0 And that plays into ISIS’ hands.<\/span><\/p>\n

JON MEACHAM:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right.\u00a0 This is not quite seasonal yet.\u00a0 But it was a hanging curveball for the right, unquestionably.\u00a0 The President brings up the sins of Christianity at a moment when the air waves are full of the extremism of the Islamic world and the perversions of that.<\/span><\/p>\n

The president, I think to some extent, missed an opportunity here.\u00a0 Because I think what you want to talk about is how does a civilization with dark impulses, because all civilizations are like that, we’re all fallen, we’re all sinful, how do we overcome those?\u00a0 And I’m just not sure how many people are really on that high horse.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right, yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

JON MEACHAM:<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think it’s a little bit context-less, too.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

All right, Jon Meacham, like I said, not many people can have this niche discussion that you can have.<\/span><\/p>\n

JON MEACHAM:<\/span><\/p>\n

Urban II is very important here.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n

JON MEACHAM:<\/span><\/p>\n

I appreciate it.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I want to get the panel over here.\u00a0 David Brooks, is our political discourse, are we too immature to have this debate?<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

I know I am.\u00a0 So–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Okay.\u00a0 But I–<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

Why are you asking me this?<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, I feel like–you’re the guy we look to on these culture– But it does make you wonder, can politicians have this debate?<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, I’m pro-Obama.\u00a0 I’m totally pro-Obama on this.\u00a0 I think he said the right thing.\u00a0 Listen, it was a gospel of humility.\u00a0 What sorts of people need a little gospel of humility?\u00a0 People in Washington, pundits, religious believers.\u00a0 I happen to be all three of those things. And so we’re told to walk humbly in the path of the Lord.\u00a0 The Lord’s ways are mysterious.\u00a0 And so you’re saying we’re prone to zealotry.\u00a0 As Jon said, we’re fallen.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s useful in Washington today.\u00a0 That’s useful always.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

You don’t use the word “crusade,” is number one, in any context right now.\u00a0 It just– it’s too fought.\u00a0 And a week after a pilot is burned alive in a video shown, you don’t lean over backwards to be philosophical about the sins of the fathers.\u00a0 You have to deal with the issue that’s in front of you, or don’t deal with it at all.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Talk about faith.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

–the point that our political culture does not allow for much nuance today.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

We\u2019re not allowed to have a nuance.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

Unfortunate.\u00a0 And because, as you have just shown with John Meacham, this is a very nuanced debate to be had, and that should be had.\u00a0 But having it in the context of 30 seconds added into a speech at a prayer breakfast where the impulse of the President’s opponents is just to jump on him–<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

–and criticize him for anything, whatever he said, is very strong.\u00a0 It’s unfortunate, but I don’t think it’s possible.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Should the president not have done it?<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, I think it was fine to do it.\u00a0 I think one of the things that’s bothering people here is the implication of race, which this president doesn’t do all that often, talk about our racial history.\u00a0 And–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

You think it was that last element that set people off?<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

I think that’s what set people off.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

And I also think that it’s important for him to be doing that.\u00a0 Think of all the context right now in which we’re having a more frank discussion about our racial history.\u00a0 You see it on the big screen in movies like Selma.\u00a0 I think the president was trying to echo some of that at the breakfast.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

It is, you do sit here and you say– the president himself, David, and you’ve spent a lot of time with him, and off the record, he wants to have more conversations like this.\u00a0 But perhaps presidents can’t.\u00a0 You can’t do it until after you leave office.\u00a0 I mean is that where we’re at?<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

No, I think was right.\u00a0 He gave the race speech.\u00a0 It was a beautiful speech.\u00a0 He’s given a whole series of great speeches, Trayvon Martin.\u00a0 I think this was literally fine.\u00a0 This is exactly the moment you want to see this. We are at most immoral danger to ourselves when we’re caught up in the righteous fervor against an evil cell, which is what we have.\u00a0 And so while we exercise our power, we have to take morally hazardous actions, and be prone to get caught up in our own self righteousness.\u00a0 This is exactly the moment–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

There are a lot of politicians, conservative politicians, who invoke religion when talking about fighting–<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

But he’s the president.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

–ISIS.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

He’s a president.\u00a0 And you can’t really go back to 1095.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

You think he made a mistake.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

I do.\u00a0 Because it’s so out of context, and it is so much in passing.\u00a0 If you’re giving a major speech about theology, perhaps.\u00a0 But this is the prayer breakfast.\u00a0 And remember, you know, the context of that is very limited.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Just a reminder, Katty, why Europe loves to be secular. I mean this is the biggest difference between the two, the basic Western divide, right, in Western Europe and–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

–you guys are a bunch of secularists.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

The big divide is god, guns and government.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

The three G’s.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

We are much more secular.\u00a0 We are much more prone to liking government.\u00a0 And we cannot understand the gun culture in this country.\u00a0 And that’s really what divides us.\u00a0 And I think it’s– I think you’re absolutely right, this discussion needs to be had, and this is the time to have it.\u00a0 I just think that the American political debate at the moment, it’s so hyper conscious of elections and winning elections and people criticizing each other that it’s very difficult conversation to–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

You know, actually, this issue of extremism, and it is going to come up again in a couple of weeks, right? \u00a0The White House is going to have this summit.\u00a0 And it’s about how to deal with Islamic extremism.\u00a0 But the question, you know it’s coming, as far as some are going to be concerned, Stephen, it won’t be enough focus on radical Islam.<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.\u00a0 Well, and, you know, that’s his Achilles heel here, is that you’ve got– his opponents wanting to make this about religion, and wanting to define our enemies in religious terms.\u00a0 And I think he’s right to resist that.\u00a0 I think he’s right to construct this summit in a way that resists that, and pushes back against it, and to stand firm on that.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Just one of those classic table catnip stories, whether they like it– he could just like– he almost wondered, did he intend to say, “Watch this.”\u00a0 You know?\u00a0 And all that.\u00a0 Anyway, thanks–<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Second term.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Thank you much.\u00a0 We’ve got a lot more to come, including a fascinating nerd screen about presidential age requirements.\u00a0 We’ll be right back.<\/span><\/p>\n

***Commercial break ***<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

A personal note:\u00a0 there are few things that are more uncomfortable for those of us who report the news than to become the news.\u00a0 And as most of you know, NBC News has been the news this week.\u00a0 Well last night, NBC News released this statement from my colleague, Brian Williams:<\/span><\/p>\n

“In the midst of a career spent covering and consuming news, it has become painfully apparent to me that I am presently too much a part of the news, due to my actions.\u00a0 As managing editor of NBC Nightly News, I decided to take myself off of my daily broadcasts for the next several days.\u00a0 And Lester Holt has kindly agreed to sit in for me to allow us to adequately deal with this issue.\u00a0 Upon my return, I will continue my career-long effort to be worthy of the trust of those who place their trust in us.”\u00a0 We’ll be right back.<\/span><\/p>\n

***Commercial break***<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Nerd Screen time.\u00a0 And today, we’re going to take a look at 2016 and how much a candidate’s age matters, whether he or she gets elected president.\u00a0 Turns out it may matter more than you think.\u00a0 In fact, take a look at this?\u00a0 If you look back at the past century, the results are pretty clear.\u00a0 Younger is apparently always better.<\/span><\/p>\n

Since Woodrow Wilson, on average, when we’ve elected a new president, that president has been, on average, seven years younger than his predecessor.\u00a0 In fact, every successor since Wilson has been younger than the man he replaced with the exception of just two people:\u00a0 George W. Bush and the president he succeeded, Bill Clinton, were the same age, both born in 1946.<\/span><\/p>\n

And of course Ronald Reagan, the oldest president to assume office, completely broke the mold.\u00a0 He was 13 years older than the man he defeated, Jimmy Carter.\u00a0 But Bush and Reagan are the outliers.\u00a0 So what were the biggest jumps from older to younger?\u00a0 Well, Barack Obama was 15 years younger than George W. Bush when Bush left office in 2009.\u00a0 President Clinton was 22 years younger than the man he defeated for reelection, President George H.W. Bush.\u00a0 In fact, Clinton was 46 when he took office, H.W. Bush was 68 the day he left.<\/span><\/p>\n

But the biggest gap in the past century between presidents was Dwight D. Eisenhower and John F. Kennedy.\u00a0 Kennedy was 27 years younger than Eisenhower.\u00a0 Kennedy, of course, 43 at the time when he took office.\u00a0 Kennedy was the youngest candidate ever elected president, by the way.<\/span><\/p>\n

So what about 2016?\u00a0 Looking at the current wide field of presidential contenders, there’s a real mistake.\u00a0 Some are younger than President Obama, including Governor Chris Christie, Senators Paul, Rubio and Cruz, Governor Scott Walker, and even former Maryland Governor Martin O’Malley.\u00a0 Again, all younger than President Obama.\u00a0 Here are the list of candidates that are older than him, including businesswoman and former (UNINTEL) Carly Fiorina, former Governor Mike Huckabee, Governor John Kasich, and on the Democratic side, Vice President Joe Biden, Senator Elizabeth Warren, and former Senator Jim Webb, all older.<\/span><\/p>\n

But the key people considered by many to be the frontrunners both are older than President Obama.\u00a0 Take a look at this.\u00a0 Jeb Bush would turn 64 just after taking office.\u00a0 He’s eight years older than the president right now.\u00a0 And Hillary Clinton, she would be 68 on the day she would take the oath of office, 13 years older than President Obama, and technically, a bigger spread, by a couple of months, than Carter and Reagan.\u00a0 And what’s more, she would become, of course, the second oldest person ever elected to the presidency for a first term, after Reagan.<\/span><\/p>\n

So why does this matter?\u00a0 Well, generations matter.\u00a0 We had two Baby Boomer presidents in a row in Clinton and George W. Bush.\u00a0 Barack Obama was sort of the first post-Boomer president.\u00a0 Do we really go backwards and elect another Baby Boomer president?\u00a0 Bush and Hillary Clinton both would be that.\u00a0 Or do we go full-fledged Gen-X, like a Scott Walker or somebody else?\u00a0 This generational stuff, it matters more than you think when you start talking about future versus the past.\u00a0 Something to watch on the trail.\u00a0 We’ll be right back.<\/span><\/p>\n

***Commercial Break***<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I will disappoint some of you out there if I don’t do ’16 at least for a couple of minutes on the show, right?\u00a0 So anyway, the ’16 race, of course, is heating up, especially on the Republican side.\u00a0 In fact, feel like each week we’re going to be able to show you stories that actually mattered.\u00a0 And three of them this week, we think, actually mattered and tell us something about the race going forward.<\/span><\/p>\n

First of all, the two likely Republican candidates, two of them proved to be pretty thin skinned, we learned, this week.\u00a0 Chris Christie frankly had a train wreck of a week in London.\u00a0 And Rand Paul got hit from all sides for his comments about vaccines, we talked about earlier in the show.<\/span><\/p>\n

Second was the news that Hillary Clinton has hired yet another Obama official for her campaign.\u00a0 It’s just one more sign she’s not running away from the president, isn’t going to be a split.\u00a0\u00a0 It is Obama’s third term?\u00a0 We’ll let other people decide that.\u00a0 And last, of course, was the fact that Wisconsin Governor Scott Walker continues to become, as The Washington Post put it, “The first It candidate of the 2016 race.”<\/span><\/p>\n

And David Brooks, if we’re going to label people “frontrunners,” if people want to label Jeb Bush, “Frontrunner,” fine.\u00a0 But you better call him the co-frontrunner.\u00a0 Because he may be the money guy, Scott Walker’s the poll guy.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

I think, early this race, don’t look at the fundraising, don’t look at the institution.\u00a0 Think of your spring training, you’re looking at a pitcher.\u00a0 Do they have stuff?\u00a0 What kind of stuff do they have?\u00a0 Chris Christie has wild stuff. And so–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Can’t find the strike zone?<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

Guys who are showing stuff right now are Scott Walker–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

– and Marco Rubio, who’s come out with a lot of really good ideas.\u00a0 So they look the best to me right now.\u00a0 And I would ignore all that other stuff, at least for now.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s fascinating.\u00a0 You know, I cannot figure out how Rubio gets out of Jeb’s shadow.\u00a0 You know, Andrea?\u00a0 And yet, he is blowing people away on the right on his policy speeches.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

And Mitt Romney is no so quietly, you know, getting behind him.\u00a0 Because he keeps talking about the next generation.\u00a0 It’s anybody–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

–Rubio.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

Oh, he’s anti-Jeb Bush.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Oh well, that we know.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

And his view is–I believe you cannot have– they can’t both be it.\u00a0 It’s got to be either Jeb or Marco Rubio when it comes down to, you know, the finish line.\u00a0 So if you pump up Marco Rubio, that stops Jeb Bush in his tracks.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Katty, London is like a–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

–London.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Are you guys hosting a caucus or something?\u00a0 Scott Walker’s headed there, too.\u00a0 I guess it’s raising expat money, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s clearly treacherous territory.\u00a0 Because do you remember Mitt Romney went there just before the Olympics and–<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Not well.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

–made that comment about how the Olympics were not going to be safe?\u00a0 And he had a disastrous week in London.\u00a0 Chris Christie’s just come back from London, as well.\u00a0 And I think one thing we’ve learned from Chris Christie and Rand Paul this week is don’t settle, don’t shush female reporters.\u00a0 It never looks good.\u00a0 Which is what Rand Paul did.\u00a0 And specific–<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

On the air\/<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

–if you’re aboard and you refuse to answer a question on foreign policy, and you are there to boost your foreign policy credentials, you look like a lightweight.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

You know Stephen, going to the Hillary Clinton hire– so the communications director for the obvious White House, Jennifer Palmieri, is about to go do the same job over there.<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

Is that the strength of the Obama administration?<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Wow.\u00a0 But I think one of the reasons that’s interesting in her hire in particular, is that she has good relations with the press.\u00a0 Hillary Clinton– historically has not.<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

Right, right.\u00a0 I mean I think that’s got to be something to think about as you’re gearing up for this campaign, how to make her more sort of, you know, amenable to press coverage and dealing with those of us who write about it.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

I was just going to say, what were your interactions.\u00a0 Do you feel like they weren’t that good eight years ago?<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

You know, I shouldn’t have said that, maybe, as harshly as I did.\u00a0 I just think this is a White House that has had a hard time communicating, and certainly has not had great relationship with the press, we all know about the sort of harsh look at what we do.\u00a0 The use of the Espionage Act against members of the press.\u00a0 I think they have had a hard time communicating.\u00a0 And that’s not been something I would hold up as a star for them.<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think they feel, the Clinton campaign, feels that they need to warm it up, they need to reach out.\u00a0 They’ve had a lot of defenses.\u00a0 And they need to take a different posture.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Clinton, it does seem as if they’re not going to– you know, there’s always been the speculation she’s going to try to split from Obama.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

She’s not doing that, is she, David?<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

No.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

There’s no– probably that’s something– why create a problem for yourself on the left when you’re not really going to have a challenge, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah,, and I think she has to move left.\u00a0 I do.\u00a0 But Obama’s moving left for her.\u00a0 So that State of the Union address was moving in the direction that she wants to go.\u00a0 The party is significantly to the left of both of them.\u00a0 And I still think if she doesn’t significantly move left, toward where the core of the party is, not only the left of the party, but what used to be the right or the middle of the party, guys like Larry Summers, and they’ve all move left, if she–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

He’s moving left.\u00a0 I was– noted Larry Summers is suddenly a populist.<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

Suddenly, if she doesn’t– you know, politics abhors a vacuum.\u00a0 Somebody will get there and will challenge her.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Hey Stephen, Jeb Bush was in your town.<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

Sure.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

How’d he do?\u00a0 I have to say, I thought the written speech was interesting to me.\u00a0 I thought his oratorical skills were a little rusty.<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.\u00a0 Well, I mean I think it’s interesting.\u00a0 You’re seeing these Republican candidates pick up this mantra of picking up the lower end of the economic ladder and expanding opportunity.\u00a0 One thing that was notable to us was that he gave the speech at Cobel Hall at the same time Wayne County was meeting with people who are behind on the property taxes, talking about taking their houses.\u00a0 You had hundreds and hundreds of–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/span><\/p>\n

–poor people, sure, in that hall at the same time that Jeb Bush is talking about doing things differently.\u00a0 And the question is, “What policies are going to implement to take care of this?”<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

By the way, we talked about Chris Christie and Rand Paul not handling questions from the press very well.\u00a0 Jeb Bush was stronger in the Q&A, in both informal and formal–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

–and get out of Jeb Bush’s shadow.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

KATTY KAY:<\/span><\/p>\n

He gives a much better speech than Jeb Bush does.<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.\u00a0 Yes, that he does.\u00a0 All right, before we go, Box.com posted an article this week by an anonymous member of Congress.\u00a0 It’s garnered quite a bit of attention here in Washington.\u00a0 It was entitled Confessions of a Congressman.\u00a0 And it lists nine secrets from Capitol Hill of those of the following– to those of those nine secrets, these stood out to me.\u00a0 Congress lists best to money.\u00a0 And this Congressman writes, “Campaigns are so expensive that the average member of Congress needs a million dollar war chest every two years.\u00a0 And then think about that, you’re paying us to do a job, and we’re spending that time you’re paying us asking rich people and corporations for money.”<\/span><\/p>\n

Then this one, you have no secret ballots anymore, he notes how easily we find out what primaries you vote in.\u00a0 And since there are not that many good candidates, they know who you voted for.\u00a0 He admits that Congressional committees are a waste of time, David Brooks.\u00a0 Congress is simply a stepping stone to getting a lobbying job.\u00a0 And the best people don’t run for Congress.\u00a0 We’ve been screaming about this for a decade.\u00a0 I guess thank you anonymous member for telling us.<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

DAVID BROOKS:<\/span><\/p>\n

No.\u00a0 And he also said we have a parliamentary system, not a Congressional one, which is just the leaders control everything.\u00a0 And as Katty knows, parliamentary system rode to a–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

Oh, not only that, I was meeting with some Israeli political leaders, and they were talking about they can’t govern domestically because of how crazy their parliament–<\/span><\/p>\n

ANDREA MITCHELL:<\/span><\/p>\n

I think the lobbying issue is one of the big factors there.\u00a0 The best people don’t run, and the fact that it is such a revolving door, we’ve known it.\u00a0 But this– they want to get on committees to raise money and to then get a better lobby–<\/span><\/p>\n

(OVERTALK)<\/span><\/p>\n

CHUCK TODD:<\/span><\/p>\n

The only reason to get on a good committee.\u00a0 Anyway, it was a great piece.\u00a0 Don’t be anonymous. That’s all for today.\u00a0 We’ll be back next week because, if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.<\/span><\/p>\n

For more information contact<\/span><\/strong>:<\/span>
\n<\/span>Maggie Steenland<\/span>
\n<\/span>NBC News
\n212-664-7874<\/span>
\nmaggie.steenland@nbcuni.com<\/span><\/a><\/span><\/p>\n

# # #<\/span><\/p>\n

MEET THE PRESS<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

\u201cMeet the Press\u201d is where newsmakers come to make news\u2014setting the political agenda, and spotlighting the impact Washington decision-making has on people across the country. \u201cMeet the Press\u201d reaches more than 3 million people every Sunday through its broadcasts and millions more through NBCNews.com, the #TweetThePress interview series, Flipboard, and social media platforms.\u00a0 Chuck Todd is the moderator of “Meet the Press” and John Reiss is the executive producer.<\/span><\/p>\n

# # #<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Sec. Kerry: \u2018No doubt that assistance of economic kind and other kinds will be going to Ukraine.\u2019 Sec. Kerry on a 2016 run: \u201cWell, nobody says never.\u00a0 But I mean, I have no concept of it.\u201d Fmr. Amb McFaul on Putin & Ukraine: “This is not just a contest about interest, this is a contest […]<\/p>\n

Read More… from “MEET THE PRESS” 2\/8\/15: SEC. KERRY ON IRAN TALKS: NO EXTENSION W\/O ‘OUTLINES’ OF A DEAL + KERRY: U.S. ‘ON THE ROAD’ TO DEFEATING ISIS<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":425,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[9],"tags":[4,110,27],"class_list":["post-682","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-meet-the-press","tag-feature","tag-meet-the-press","tag-transcript"],"yoast_head":"\n"MEET THE PRESS" 2\/8\/15: SEC. 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