{"id":1003,"date":"2015-10-25T13:30:50","date_gmt":"2015-10-25T17:30:50","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/press.nbcnews.com\/?p=1003"},"modified":"2015-10-25T13:30:50","modified_gmt":"2015-10-25T17:30:50","slug":"mtp-carson-compares-abortion-to-slavery-would-love-to-see-roe-v-wade-overturned","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/nbcuniversalnewsgroup.com\/nbcnews\/2015\/10\/25\/mtp-carson-compares-abortion-to-slavery-would-love-to-see-roe-v-wade-overturned\/","title":{"rendered":"MTP: CARSON COMPARES ABORTION TO SLAVERY, \u201cWOULD LOVE TO SEE\u201d ROE V. WADE OVERTURNED"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><em><strong>Carson responds to Trump: \u201cI have plenty of energy\u201d <\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Carson on his Nazi metaphors: \u201cI\u2019ve heard from many in the Jewish community, including rabbis, who said \u2018You are exactly right\u2019\u201d <\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<p><em><strong>Exclusive: Rep. Cummings on possible Md. Senate run: \u201cWhen I\u2019m not even in the race, and I\u2019m leading by 13 points, it does give me an idea of how I would do\u201d\u00a0<\/strong><\/em><\/p>\n<p>OCT. 25, 2015 &#8212; \u00a0Republican presidential candidate <strong>Dr. Ben Carson<\/strong> told \u201cMeet the Press\u201d moderator Chuck Todd that he \u201cwould love to see\u201d Roe v. Wade overturned, and in the cases of rape and incest, he \u201cwould not be in favor of killing a baby&#8230;.Look up the many stories of people who have led very useful lives who were the result of rape or incest.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Addressing exceptions to abortion, Carson replied, &#8220;I&#8217;m a reasonable person and if people can come up with a reasonable explanation of why they would like to kill a baby, I&#8217;ll listen.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>Carson, who spoke with Todd on the trail in Iowa, also likened abortion to slavery and expanded on his comments earlier this week about using the Department of Education to police extreme bias on campus.<\/p>\n<p>Watch the full interview with Carson here: <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1H2TT1c\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1H2TT1c<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Benghazi Committee Chairman <strong>Rep. Trey Gowdy<\/strong> (R-SC) and ranking member <strong>Rep. Elijah Cummings <\/strong>(D-MD) also joined the show exclusively to discuss Thursday\u2019s hearing with former Sec. Hillary Clinton.<\/p>\n<p>At the end of his interview, Rep. Cummings addressed speculation of a possible Senate run, admitting he is paying attention to poll numbers. \u201cYou\u2019ve got to do that,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<p>The show also featured insights from American biographer <strong>Doris Kearns Goodwin<\/strong>; CNBC\u2019s<strong> John Harwood<\/strong>; The Detroit Free Press\u2019<strong> Steven Henderson; <\/strong>and The Washington Post\u2019s<strong> Jennifer Rubin. <\/strong><\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong><u>MANDATORY CREDIT: NBC NEWS\u2019 \u201cMEET THE PRESS\u201d \u00a0<\/u><\/strong><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>Mandatory credit to NBC News\u2019 \u201cMeet the Press\u201d on first reference.<\/li>\n<li>The onscreen \u201cMeet the Press\u201d credit must be clearly visible and unobstructed at all times in any image, video clip, or other form of media.<\/li>\n<li>Embedded web video must stream from the NBCNews.com media player with the unobstructed credit as described above.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carson Responds to Trump: \u201cI Have Plenty of Energy\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>WATCH: <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1OZHhOX\"><em>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1OZHhOX<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, let me start. \u00a0Obviously, you&#8217;ve surged in the polls here in Iowa. \u00a0And the person you have surpassed commented on Friday night. \u00a0And he said this of you. \u00a0Donald Trump called you, &#8220;Super low energy.&#8221; \u00a0And he added this. \u00a0He did an imitation of a news anchor. \u00a0&#8220;We have a breaking story. \u00a0Donald Trump has fallen to second place behind Ben Carson. \u00a0We informed Ben, but he was sleeping.&#8221; \u00a0How do you respond to Mr. Trump?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>You know, everybody has their own personality. \u00a0And if he&#8217;d like to do that, that&#8217;s fine. \u00a0That&#8217;s not who I am. \u00a0And I don&#8217;t get into the mud pit. \u00a0And I&#8217;m not going to be talking about people. \u00a0I will tell you in terms of energy I&#8217;m not sure that there&#8217;s anybody else running who&#8217;s spent 18 or 20 hours intently operating on somebody.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Do you think that people mistaken your soft-spokenness with a lack of energy?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>I think so. \u00a0I have plenty of energy. \u00a0But, you know, I am soft-spoken. \u00a0I do have a tendency to be relaxed. \u00a0I wasn&#8217;t always like that. \u00a0There was a time when I was, you know, very volatile. \u00a0But, you know, I changed.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>When was that?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>As a teenager. \u00a0I would go after people with rocks, and bricks, and baseball bats, and hammers. \u00a0And, of course, many people know the story when I was 14 and I tried to stab someone. \u00a0And, you know, fortunately, you know, my life has been changed. \u00a0And I&#8217;m a very different person now.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carson on Roe v. Wade: \u201cI Would Love to See It Overturned\u201d<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>WATCH: <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1kFcX0Q\"><em>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1kFcX0Q<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>In the ideal situation, the mother should not believe that the baby is her enemy and should not be looking to terminate the baby. \u00a0You know, things are set up in such a way that the person in the world who has the greatest interest in protecting the baby is the mother. \u00a0We&#8217;ve allowed the purveyors of the vision to make mothers think that that baby is their enemy and that they have a right to kill it. \u00a0Can you see how perverted that line of thinking is?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>What if somebody has an unwanted pregnancy? \u00a0Should they have the right to terminate?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>No. \u00a0Think about this. \u00a0During slavery&#8211; and I know that&#8217;s one of those words you&#8217;re not supposed to say, but I&#8217;m saying it. \u00a0During slavery, a lot of the slave owners thought that they had the right to do whatever they wanted to that slave. \u00a0Anything that they chose to do. \u00a0And, you know, what if the abolitionist had said, you know, &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe in slavery. \u00a0I think it&#8217;s wrong. \u00a0But you guys do whatever you want to do?\u201d \u00a0Where would we be?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Then to that end, the other day in the interview, \u00a0you would not say whether you were in favor of repealing Roe v. Wade definitively. \u00a0Do you want to see Roe v. Wade overturned?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>I would like to see it done in the right way. \u00a0And I think that means that when we appoint judges, we need to look at their record and see what is their record of interpretation of the Constitution. \u00a0How have they behaved? \u00a0Who have they associated with? \u00a0Rather than what they say in a interview.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Okay. \u00a0Do you want to see Roe v. Wade overturned?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Ultimately, I would love to see it overturned.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Carson on Holocaust Comments: Many Jewish Leaders Say I\u2019m Right<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>WATCH: <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1MdaC35\"><em>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1MdaC35<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Why do you so easily go to Nazi metaphors? You refer to, when you were talking about health care, you referred to a Gestapo. \u00a0A lot of times, the minute you talk about the Nazis, the minute you talk about the Holocaust, people stop listening.<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Although interestingly enough, you know, in the last several weeks, I&#8217;ve heard from many people in the Jewish community, including rabbis, who said, &#8220;You&#8217;re spot on. \u00a0You are exactly right.&#8221; \u00a0And I think, you know, some of the people in your business quite frankly who like to try to stir things up and try to make this into a big, horrible thing.<\/p>\n<p>If I say something about something that we don&#8217;t want to become and we never even want to get close to it, then I&#8217;m comparing it and I&#8217;m saying we&#8217;re there. \u00a0That&#8217;s what they do. \u00a0And, of course, for people who aren&#8217;t really thinking deeply, you know, that resonates. \u00a0But, you know, the fortunate thing is a lot of people really do think for themselves, as you can see, you know, from the poll numbers here.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>Rep. Elijah Cummings Cites Polls, Addresses Potential Senate Run<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><em>WATCH: <\/em><a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1R6jU5q\"><em>http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1R6jU5q<\/em><\/a><\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Very quickly, are you running for the U.S. Senate in Maryland?<\/p>\n<p>REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m going to meet with my family and we&#8217;re going to make that decision. \u00a0When I&#8217;m not even in the race, by the way, and I&#8217;m leading by 13 points, it does give me an idea of how I would do. \u00a0So we&#8217;ll figure that out. \u00a0But right now, I didn&#8217;t want this to have anything to do with politics. \u00a0So I said that I would wait till Benghazi was over. \u00a0Hopefully it will be over and I&#8217;m hoping that Chairman Gowdy will give us a date certain to end this. \u00a0After all, we&#8217;ve now spent close to $5 million on this.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>All right. \u00a0Congressman Cummings, let the record show, you are paying attention to your polling in a race that you&#8217;re not yet in.<\/p>\n<p>REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS:<\/p>\n<p>Oh yeah, you&#8217;ve got to do that.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p>Below are highlights, video clips, and a rush transcript of today\u2019s program. Additional show video is available online at<a href=\"http:\/\/www.meetthepressnbc.com\"> www.MeetThePressNBC.com<\/a>. Join the conversation online with hashtag #MTP.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>comPRESSed: Catch the show in less than 2 minutes <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1i6enQa\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1i6enQa<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Carson Explains His Plan for Health Care <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1N0TYc6\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1N0TYc6<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Carson: As President, I\u2019d Surround Myself with Experts <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1Wcccx8\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1Wcccx8<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Full Interview with Rep. Trey Gowdy (R-SC) <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1KytFE4\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1KytFE4<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Full Interview with Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1k2TWov\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1k2TWov<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Hillary Clinton\u2019s Best Week of the Campaign <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1i6deYH\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1i6deYH<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Nerdscreen: Mainstream Positions Among Primary Voters <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1OZJc6a\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1OZJc6a<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Hillary Clinton Clears October Hurdles <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1GqnN4I\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1GqnN4I<\/a><\/li>\n<li>Panel: Is Jeb Bush\u2019s Campaign in Trouble? <a href=\"http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1XrK6er\">http:\/\/nbcnews.to\/1XrK6er<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p>MEET THE PRESS &#8212; SUNDAY, OCTOBER 25, 2015<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>This Sunday the new frontrunner in Iowa. Ben Carson surges ahead of the pack, shocking the pundits and getting under Donald Trump\u2019s skin.<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m Presbyterian. I mean Seven Day Adventists I don\u2019t know about.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>My sit down with Ben Carson who isn\u2019t holding back.<\/p>\n<p>BEN CARSON:<\/p>\n<p>That people can come up with a reasonable explanation of why they would like to kill a baby, I\u2019ll listen.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Plus, did Republicans fumble their moment at that Benghazi hearing.<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>I don\u2019t know what ya\u2019ll were doing Thursday, I had a rough Thursday.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ll talk to the leading figures of the Benghazi committee, Republican Trey Gowdy and Democrat Elijah Cummings.<\/p>\n<p>And Clinton\u2019s big week. The Democratic debate, won. Joe Biden, out. The Benghazi hearing, over. The 10 days that could\u2019ve vaulted Hillary Clinton to the Democratic nomination.<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s been quite a week hasn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And joining me for insight and analysis this Sunday morning are CNBC\u2019s John Harwood, Pulitzer Prize winning historian Doris Kearns Goodwin, the <em>Washington Post<\/em>\u2019s Jennifer Rubin, and Stephen Henderson of the <em>Detroit Free Press<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>Welcome to Sunday, it\u2019s <em>Meet the Press. <\/em><\/p>\n<p>ANNOUNCER:<\/p>\n<p>From NBC News in Washington, this is <em>Meet the Press<\/em>, with Chuck Todd.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Good Sunday morning. \u00a0We&#8217;ve just come through perhaps the most significant ten days in the 2016 campaign to date. \u00a0On the Democratic side, Hillary Clinton reestablished herself as the clear front runner. \u00a0She won last week&#8217;s Democratic debate. \u00a0Two of her lesser opponent, Jim Webb and Lincoln Chafee dropped out of the race. \u00a0Joe Biden decided he had no path to victory.<\/p>\n<p>And on top of all that, Clinton was almost universally seen as having survived, and some even thought she might&#8217;ve thrived at that House Benghazi hearing. \u00a0On the Republican side, the candidates that are struggling are really feeling the pressure. \u00a0Here&#8217;s Jeb Bush unplugged yesterday.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>JEB BUSH:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;ve got a lot of really cool things that I could do other than sit around being miserable listening to people demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. \u00a0That is a joke. \u00a0Elect Trump if you want that.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Wow, a lot to dig into there, which we will later in the show. \u00a0And now, not one, but two polls show Ben Carson leading Donald Trump and all the rest of the Republicans in Iowa. \u00a0And guess what? \u00a0We are now just 99 days away from that snowy Monday in Iowa where we&#8217;ll find out who wins the caucuses. \u00a0And Carson&#8217;s under-the-radar rise has bewildered the smarty-pants crowd here in Washington. \u00a0And I caught up with Carson in Ames, Iowa yesterday, and began by asking him to respond to these comments from Donald Trump.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP (ON TAPE):<\/p>\n<p>We have a breaking story. Donald Trump has fallen to second place behind Ben Carson. We informed Ben, but he was sleeping.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>How do you respond to Mr. Trump?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>You know, everybody has their own personality. \u00a0And if he&#8217;d like to do that, that&#8217;s fine. \u00a0That&#8217;s not who I am. \u00a0And I don&#8217;t get into the mud pit. \u00a0And I&#8217;m not going to be talking about people. \u00a0I will tell you in terms of energy I&#8217;m not sure that there&#8217;s anybody else running who&#8217;s spent 18 or 20 hours intently operating on somebody.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Do you think that people mistaken your soft-spokenness with a lack of energy?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>I think so. \u00a0I have plenty of energy. \u00a0But, you know, I am soft-spoken. \u00a0I do have a tendency to be relaxed. \u00a0I wasn&#8217;t always like that. \u00a0There was a time when I was, you know, very volatile. \u00a0But, you know, I changed.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>When was that?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>As a teenager. \u00a0I would go after people with rocks, and bricks, and baseball bats, and hammers. \u00a0And, of course, many people know the story when I was 14 and I tried to stab someone. \u00a0And, you know, fortunately, you know, my life has been changed. \u00a0And I&#8217;m a very different person now.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Why do you so easily go to Nazi metaphors? You refer to, when you were talking about health care, you referred to a Gestapo. \u00a0A lot of times, the minute you talk about the Nazis, the minute you talk about the Holocaust, people stop listening.<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Although interestingly enough, you know, in the last several weeks, I&#8217;ve heard from many people in the Jewish community, including rabbis, who said, &#8220;You&#8217;re spot on. \u00a0You are exactly right.&#8221; \u00a0And I think, you know, some of the people in your business quite frankly who like to try to stir things up and try to make this into a big, horrible thing.<\/p>\n<p>If I say something about something that we don&#8217;t want to become and we never even want to get close to it, then I&#8217;m comparing it and I&#8217;m saying we&#8217;re there. \u00a0That&#8217;s what they do. \u00a0And, of course, for people who aren&#8217;t really thinking deeply, you know, that resonates. \u00a0But, you know, the fortunate thing is a lot of people really do think for themselves, as you can see, you know, from the poll numbers here.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You talked about, you said a lot of Jewish people reached out to you about, saying you were spot on. \u00a0So you believe if the Jewish citizenry were armed during the Holocaust, during the &#8217;40s, that they would have been able to stop the Nazis?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Well, look at the whole context in which I have said that and which I have written about it. \u00a0I wrote about societies, before tyranny was able to take root, that the tyrants tried to rid the people of the mechanism to defend themselves. \u00a0So it was said in that context. \u00a0And I think it is generally agreed that it&#8217;s much more difficult to dominate people who are armed than people who are not armed. \u00a0You know, some people will try to take that and, you know, make it into an anti-Jewish thing, which is foolishness.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>On your position on guns, a little bit of a contradiction. \u00a0In one article in <em>Breitbart<\/em>, you indicated that there really shouldn&#8217;t be a line about what types of weapons. \u00a0That the second amendment, you know, if the government can have, you know, an automatic weapon, then the citizenry should have the right to buy an automatic weapon.<\/p>\n<p>And then at the same time, you have said in places where there are a lot of crowds, referring, I think, to cities, you don&#8217;t want a crazy person ending up with the wrong type of weapon. \u00a0So you seem to be open to limiting that. \u00a0What is your stand on this?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Well, my point being we should never compromise the Second Amendment. \u00a0It&#8217;s therefore a very, very important reason. \u00a0And Noah Webster said that America would never suffer under tyranny because if people were armed. \u00a0So we need to keep that in mind. \u00a0Of course, we should be thinking about what can we do to keep dangerous weapons out of the hands of mentally unstable people. \u00a0The two things are not incompatible. \u00a0But&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So you&#8217;re not saying there should be a limitation on what type of weapon a sane person should be able to buy?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Of course not. \u00a0You know, when we put this amendment in place, you know, state-of-the-art weapon was what? \u00a0A musket? \u00a0But the principle was that the citizenry should have, you know, access to whatever they needed in order to protect themselves from an overly aggressive government.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>What&#8217;s the line? \u00a0I mean, should somebody be able to have one of these surface-to-air missiles?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>I don&#8217;t think you can get a surface-to-air missile legally in this country.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And that&#8217;s okay? \u00a0I mean, that&#8217;s my point. \u00a0Like, you&#8217;re okay with having, you know, anything you can hold, you know, there is some limitation on what somebody&#8211;<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>There is. \u00a0And we have laws that, you know, take care of that.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Does life begin at conception?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>I believe it does.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Does that mean, whose right, I guess, should be superseded? \u00a0The mother or the unborn child? \u00a0Whose rights, who has greater rights?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>In the ideal situation, the mother should not believe that the baby is her enemy and should not be looking to terminate the baby. \u00a0You know, things are set up in such a way that the person in the world who has the greatest interest in protecting the baby is the mother. \u00a0We&#8217;ve allowed the purveyors of the division to make mothers think that that baby is their enemy and that they have a right to kill it. \u00a0Can you see how perverted that line of thinking is?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>What if somebody has an unwanted pregnancy? \u00a0Should they have the right to terminate?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>No. \u00a0Think about this. \u00a0During slavery&#8211; and I know that&#8217;s one of those words you&#8217;re not supposed to say, but I&#8217;m saying it. \u00a0During slavery, a lot of the slave owners thought that they had the right to do whatever they wanted to that slave. \u00a0Anything that they chose to do. \u00a0And, you know, what if the abolitionist had said, you know, &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe in slavery. \u00a0I think it&#8217;s wrong. \u00a0But you guys do whatever you want to do\u201d? \u00a0Where would we be?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD: Definitively, do you want to see Roe v. Wade overturned?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Ultimately, I would love to see it overturned.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And that means all abortions illegal? \u00a0Or is there still an exception that you would have?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>I&#8217;m a reasonable person. \u00a0And if people can come up with a reasonable explanation of why they would like to kill a baby, I&#8217;ll listen.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Life and health of the mother?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Again, that&#8217;s an extraordinarily rare situation. \u00a0But if in that very rare situation it occurred, I believe there&#8217;s room to discuss that.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Rape and incest?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Rape and incest, I would not be in favor of killing a baby because the baby came about in that way. \u00a0And all you have to do is go and look up the many stories of people who have led very useful lives who were the result of rape or incest.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I want to move to health care. \u00a0You have, I think a lot of people don&#8217;t realize this. \u00a0You believe we should get rid of Medicare and replace it with sort of a, I think, from birth to death plan where you would, the government would give you $2,000 a year. \u00a0Explain how&#8211;<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>No&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;you would&#8211; okay, I may have&#8211;<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Not&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;misinterpreted it. \u00a0Explain how you would&#8211;<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Not correct.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;replace Medicare.<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>First of all, what I have said is that the system that I would put in place would largely negate the need for Medicare or for Medicaid. \u00a0So I&#8217;m not talking about getting rid of those programs. \u00a0And the way that I generally see things, entitlement programs, et cetera, is we create a mechanism that allows people to ascend the ladder of success to the extent that they don&#8217;t need those programs anymore. \u00a0That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m talking about. \u00a0Now, people will always try to reinterpret that to say, &#8220;Carson wants to get rid of this. \u00a0He wants to get rid of that. \u00a0And he wants to leave all these people in a terrible situation.&#8221; \u00a0That&#8217;s propaganda.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>How do you, but you, how do you implement this?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Well, the way you do it is we make health savings accounts available to people from the day that they are born to the day that they die, at which time they can pass it on to their family. \u00a0We pay for it with the same traditional dollars that we pay for our health care with. \u00a0Recognize that in America we spend twice as much per capita on health care as many other countries.<\/p>\n<p>And yet we have these horrible access problems. \u00a0So we have adequate resources. \u00a0We just don&#8217;t use them in an efficient way. \u00a0And then we give people the ability to shift money within their health savings account within their family. \u00a0If you&#8217;re $500 short, your wife can give it to you out of hers. \u00a0Or your daughter, or your uncle, or your cousin. \u00a0It makes, It gives you enormous flexibility without a middleman.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So you\u2019re basically you would eliminate insurance companies? \u00a0Health insurance companies?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>I&#8217;m not finished.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Okay.<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Okay, that&#8217;ll take care of the largest number of incidents that you&#8217;re likely to occur. \u00a0Now, it doesn&#8217;t take care of catastrophic health care. \u00a0But you can buy a catastrophic health care policy. \u00a0And it&#8217;s going to cost you a lot less now because the vast majority of things are coming out of your HSA.<\/p>\n<p>So the only thing coming out of your catastrophic insurance is real catastrophic health care. \u00a0It&#8217;s sort of like having a homeowner&#8217;s policy with a big deductible versus a homeowner&#8217;s policy where you want every scratch covered. \u00a0Two completely different animals.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>But you are advocating for the government to sort of spend this money and just allocate it in a different way.<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>Well, yeah. \u00a0The money from Medicaid, it&#8217;s going to take care of those health savings accounts, yes.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Final question. \u00a0You would not, I&#8217;m guessing you would not hire somebody to be a doctor if they didn&#8217;t have experience in the medical field. \u00a0What do you say to folks that say, &#8220;Why should we hire you as president when you have no experience in government or the political field?&#8221;<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>I would say that there are a lot of people who like to believe that whatever they do is the end-all and that nobody could absolutely do things better than they could. \u00a0It&#8217;s sort of like the Constitution. \u00a0People say, &#8220;What are you doing talking about the Constitution? \u00a0You&#8217;re not a constitutional lawyer.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>Well, the Constitution was written at a eighth grade level for a reason. \u00a0They wanted the people to be able to understand how they were being governed. \u00a0And our government was set up for citizen statesmen, not for career politicians. \u00a0And, you know, common sense is a lot more valuable than many years in the political arena.<\/p>\n<p>Witness the fact that in Congress we have 8,700 years of political experience. \u00a0Where has that gotten us? \u00a0And I think the people are willing to open their eyes and say, &#8220;Let&#8217;s talk about common sense.&#8221; \u00a0Now, that doesn&#8217;t mean that if someone like me were to get in, that we wouldn&#8217;t have plenty of people around us who were well-seasoned in what was going on in Washington and in various parts of the world.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>So you&#8217;re going to surround yourself with experienced people is what you&#8217;re saying?<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>BEN CARSON:<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>I think you have to do that. \u00a0Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived, said in Proverbs 11:14, &#8220;In a multitude of counselors is safety.&#8221; \u00a0If the wisest man who ever lived thought that, I certainly believe that. \u00a0I think you&#8217;re a fool if you think you know everything.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You can see my complete interview with Ben Carson, unedited. \u00a0We get into Syria, the debt ceiling, a few other issues. \u00a0That&#8217;s on our website, MeetThePressNBC.com. \u00a0Coming up, you remember this scene from Thursday&#8217;s Benghazi hearings?<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>The survivors? Even their names? You want that? You want that released?<\/p>\n<p>ELIJAH CUMMINGS:<\/p>\n<p>Let me tell you something. \u00a0No. \u00a0You know, but let me tell you something.<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>The only one you&#8217;ve asked for is Sidney Blumenthal. \u00a0That&#8217;s the only one you\u2019ve asked for. \u00a0That and Miss Mills.<\/p>\n<p>LINDA SANCHEZ:<\/p>\n<p>Cheryl Mills.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>The top two members of that select House committee on Benghazi. That, when we return.<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Welcome back. \u00a0It&#8217;s not hard to find Democrats who think Republicans are out of the mainstream, or Republicans who think it&#8217;s Democrats that are out of the mainstream of American opinion. \u00a0So which party really is in the mainstream? \u00a0Well, in our latest NBC News\/<em>Wall Street Journal<\/em> poll, we asked Americans which political party is in the mainstream on these six issues: \u00a0gay marriage, abortion, climate change, immigration, fiscal issues, and guns.<\/p>\n<p>Well, not surprisingly, Democratic primary voters believe they&#8217;re in the mainstream on all six of those issues, from gay marriage down to guns. \u00a0And Republican primary voters believed they&#8217;re in the mainstream on all six issues. \u00a0Somebody&#8217;s got to be wrong here, right?<\/p>\n<p>So who do we go to figure this out? \u00a0Well, yes, independents. \u00a0And there&#8217;s good news here if you&#8217;re the Democrats. \u00a0Because among independents in our poll, they believe the Democratic party is in the mainstream on three of the six issues: gay marriage, abortion, and climate change. \u00a0On the issue of guns, they believe it&#8217;s the Republicans that are in the mainstream.<\/p>\n<p>The only issue that they say the Republicans are in the mainstream. \u00a0By the way, on the two big fiscal issues here, immigration and economic issues overall, independents believe both parties are more out of the mainstream. \u00a0So what are we to conclude from this? \u00a0Well, number one, look, the independent voter came to reflect the total electorate better than either party.<\/p>\n<p>But this is what it&#8217;s going to mean a year from now. \u00a0In October, three or four weeks before election day, it means Republicans are going to use the gun issue as a wedge in some of these swing states. \u00a0Think Colorado, think Iowa, think Virginia. \u00a0And Democrats are going to use the issues of marriage, abortion, and climate change as wedge issues in other parts of those same swing states.<\/p>\n<p>Probably in the suburbs. \u00a0You saw it in &#8217;12, you&#8217;re going to see it again in &#8217;16. \u00a0What you won&#8217;t see is either party arguing about the two issues that both are out of the mainstream on. \u00a0Coming up, where do we go from here on the Benghazi investigation? \u00a0I&#8217;m going to ask the top Republican and Democrat on the committee when we return.<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Welcome back. \u00a0For months, many Republicans look to Hillary Clinton&#8217;s testimony before the House Benghazi Committee as the moment where she would be exposed for failing to protect American lives, and frankly, potentially, even lying about it. \u00a0More recently, many Democrats look to the hearings with similar anticipation, hoping this would be the day Clinton came off as the adult in the room and exposed the committee as a partisan charade.<\/p>\n<p>While judging by these headlines from <em>The Washington Post<\/em>, <em>Time<\/em>, and <em>Politico<\/em>, it looks like perhaps the Democrats got their way at least on the PR front. \u00a0Joining me now this morning are the chairman of the House Select Committee on Benghazi, Republican Trey Gowdy of South Carolina, and the ranking Democrat on that committee, Elijah Cummings of Maryland. \u00a0Congressman Cummings, we will get to you in a moment. \u00a0We&#8217;re going to start with Chairman Gowdy. \u00a0Chairman, good morning sir.<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>Good morning to you and to Mr. Cummings.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Let me start with playing a clip of something, you are asked on Thursday evening after the hearing. \u00a0Here it is.<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY (ON TAPE):<\/p>\n<p>Well, when you say new today, we knew some of that already. \u00a0We knew about the emails. \u00a0In terms of her testimony? \u00a0I don&#8217;t know that she testified that much differently today than she has the previous time she&#8217;s testified. \u00a0So I&#8217;d have to go back and look at the transcript.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>All right? \u00a0Simple question, you looked at the transcript I imagine in the last 72 hours, what have you come up with?<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>Well, I think there&#8217;s some new information, Chuck, and some clarifying information in all three charges of Benghazi. \u00a0If you look at the tranches that I think Secretary Clinton has the most information on, it&#8217;s that first tranche that before, when she&#8217;s asked, whether she takes responsibility, she says, &#8220;Yes.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>But when you ask responsibility for what, I can&#8217;t tell you what she&#8217;s taking responsibility for. \u00a0And my main fear there is how are we better prepared to avoid the next Benghazi if we don&#8217;t fully understand who made the errors and where the errors were made last time. \u00a0So with respect to responsibility, with the placing of the mission, with the request for more security, I have a perspective which is rooted in the previous ARB that the Secretary of State, himself or herself, should do that personal review.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Yes.<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>Her position is that there are people and processes in place and she relies on security experts. \u00a0We&#8217;ve got to get that reconciled. \u00a0Because I think Mr. Cummings and I both agree that the penultimate objective is to avoid the next Benghazi.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Let me ask you, we did a little calculation here on the number of words that you used during the hearing. \u00a0You said the word &#8220;Benghazi&#8221; 17 times, &#8220;Blumenthal&#8221; 35 times, &#8220;emails&#8221; 76 times. \u00a0You have made a promise that you were keeping the focus on Benghazi. \u00a0Do you feel as if you did as much or, you know, even some Republicans were wondering why you were going down the Sidney Blumenthal, what some call the rabbit hole.<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>Well, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s a rabbit hole, Chuck, and I&#8217;ll tell you why. \u00a0I mean, I respect the fact that other people have different perspectives. \u00a0But to me, those are not Sidney Blumenthal&#8217;s emails. \u00a0They are Secretary Clinton&#8217;s emails to or from Sidney Blumenthal. \u00a0And every one of them relates to Libya and Benghazi.<\/p>\n<p>So I&#8217;m not reading Blumenthal emails about bridesmaids dresses or wedding plans or yoga. \u00a0These are all about Libya and Benghazi. \u00a0And to the extent that he was one of the more prolific emailers to her on the subject matter, how do you not ask? \u00a0How does this person who has no formal role in government and no expertise in Libya or Benghazi, how does he have unfettered access to you, but the ambassador, there is not a single email to or from him? \u00a0So I get that people want to refer to these as Sidney Blumenthal emails. \u00a0They&#8217;re Hillary Clinton emails that she received from him. \u00a0And frankly, I think it&#8217;d be a dereliction of duty if you didn&#8217;t ask about them.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, nobody is questioning whether to ask about them. \u00a0I think it was the amount of time spent on it. \u00a0It seemed like a larger portion of time was spent on that. \u00a0For instance, I didn&#8217;t hear as many questions that I expected to hear on the Libya policy in general. \u00a0You know, the vacuum that was left that ultimately created the security situation that we had in Benghazi that led to the death of four Americans.<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>I think Peter Roskam and Mike Pompeo both ask, maybe all of their series of questions on the tick tock memo and I remember Susan Brooks having a stack of emails in 2011 versus 2012. \u00a0And 2011, there was a heightened interest in Libya and Benghazi, in 2012, it appeared to dissipate at least according to the emails.<\/p>\n<p>So, I mean, Chuck, as you know, but when you go into hearings, each of the seven members has his or her own lane. \u00a0That&#8217;s what they&#8217;re going to ask on. \u00a0And I do think it is relevant on two different levels. \u00a0Whether or not his emails were solicited or unsolicited, you could certainly argue is irrelevant. \u00a0But she said they were unsolicited. \u00a0And I do think credibility is always relevant. \u00a0If they were truly unsolicited, then she wouldn&#8217;t have changed her testimony on Thursday.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Let me ask you this, you said this the other night on FOX with Greta Van Susteren. \u00a0You said, &#8220;Part of what I saw yesterday, Greta, wasn&#8217;t all that constructive. \u00a0And for the American people to just tune into a nine-hour food fight, I would err on the side of a private one before I would do that.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>It was in response to a question about future witnesses that you would bring on, whether it would be on TV or not. \u00a0It sounds like you may regret how you went about questioning Secretary Clinton, that maybe you should&#8217;ve done some of it off camera and only some of it on camera. \u00a0What do over do you want?<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>Well, Chuck it was a voluntary interview. \u00a0I didn&#8217;t send the subpoena to Secretary Clinton. \u00a0It was a voluntary interview, and she wanted it to be in public. \u00a0I wrote a letter several months ago giving her an option. \u00a0And she chose public. \u00a0And that&#8217;s well within her right.<\/p>\n<p>I can just tell you that of the 50-some odd interviews we have done thus far, the vast majority of them have been private. \u00a0And you don&#8217;t see the bickering among the members of Congress and private interviews. \u00a0You don&#8217;t see any of that. \u00a0So the venue that is most constructive&#8211;<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/strong><\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Do you think TV camera adds to the grandstanding on both sides of the aisle?<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>What do you think, Chuck? \u00a0I mean, you&#8217;ve been following Congress for a long time. \u00a0I can just tell you in the private interviews, there is never any of what you saw Thursday. \u00a0It is one hour on the Republican side, one hour on the Democrat side. \u00a0Which is why you&#8217;re going to see the next two-dozen interviews done privately, because it is, I mean, look at the other investigations that are being done right now. \u00a0The Lois Lerner investigation that was just announced, was that public or private? \u00a0How about Comey&#8217;s investigation? \u00a0Is that public or private? \u00a0The private ones always produce better results.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Very quickly, Secretary Clinton, was she a cooperative witness?<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>She answered the questions. \u00a0And I would note, I don&#8217;t think I ever cut her off. \u00a0She was given ample opportunity. \u00a0So she answered the questions, yeah. \u00a0If that&#8217;s your definition of cooperative, yes.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Is that yours?<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>You know, I&#8217;ve always also injected an element of wholeness and completeness and also truthfulness in the definition of cooperative. \u00a0And I&#8217;ll give you one example. \u00a0I gave her an opportunity to tell me where the 90% to 95% figure comes from. \u00a0She&#8217;s wrong about that. \u00a0So did she cooperate in answering the question? \u00a0Yes. \u00a0Was it an accurate answer? \u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>All right, Congressman Gowdy, I will leave it there. \u00a0Thank you very much. \u00a0Let me bring in the ranking Democrat on the Benghazi Committee from Maryland, Elijah Cummings. \u00a0Congressman Cummings, welcome back to <em>Meet the Press<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>ELIJAH CUMMINGS:<\/p>\n<p>Good to be with you.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Let me start quickly with I guess the one issue that a lot of people had with how the Democrats handled themselves. \u00a0We tallied up 68 total questions to Secretary Clinton. \u00a0Sixteen of them at best could we call &#8220;challenging.&#8221; \u00a0Why did you guys choose a strategy of shield rather than a strategy of really what Tammy Duckworth did, probably the one Democrat that did it the most, of conducting the hearing, asking questions about the security situation?<\/p>\n<p>ELIJAH CUMMINGS:<\/p>\n<p>From the very beginning, Chuck, I said we were looking for the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. \u00a0And in many instances, we found ourselves having to not defend Secretary Clinton, but to make sure that the record was complete.<\/p>\n<p>And I&#8217;m glad that the public had an opportunity to see all of that. \u00a0And I mean, when you&#8217;re looking at what we were asking about, they were the things that went to Benghazi, the things that we were supposed to be dealing with from the very beginning. \u00a0And when the families came in, many of them with tears in their eyes, they asked us to only do three things. \u00a0One, they asked us to make sure that we made sure that this did not happen again.<\/p>\n<p>They wanted us to look for the facts, more facts than we already had. \u00a0And they asked us for one final thing. \u00a0They asked us to make sure that we did not turn this into a political football. \u00a0So all we were trying to do is make sure that we defended the truth.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well, there was one new fact I think that a lot of people came away with. \u00a0And that was the characterization of the attack itself. \u00a0And there&#8217;s always been this controversy that the White House was conflating the video issues that took place versus what happened in Benghazi that night.<\/p>\n<p>One of the emails said, that was turned up was an email Secretary Clinton, I&#8217;m going to put it up here, to her daughter Chelsea Clinton, who, by the way, used the pseudonym &#8220;Diane Reynolds&#8221; in her email, and on September 11th, that night, Secretary Clinton classified it as a terrorist attack by an Al Qaeda-like group. \u00a0Three days later, Secretary Clinton said this:<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON (ON TAPE):<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ve seen the heavy assault on our post in Benghazi that took the lives of those brave men. \u00a0We&#8217;ve seen rage and violence directed at American embassies over an awful internet video that we had nothing to do with.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Did that trouble you, that there were two stories here? \u00a0And does that deserve an extra line of inquiry?<\/p>\n<p>ELIJAH CUMMINGS:<\/p>\n<p>No, not at all. \u00a0As a matter of fact, I thought the secretary explained it very well. \u00a0Remember what she said during the hearing, and she said this over and over again, that on the night of the incident, Ansar Al-sharia said that they had committed this offense. \u00a0So when she was writing a note to her daughter, emailing her daughter, and making those statements, that was one thing.<\/p>\n<p>The next day, and then by the way, they were getting intelligence from a lot of folks. \u00a0And some of it said it was with regard to the video. \u00a0Others said that it was an attack. \u00a0And so therefore, the information was flawed. \u00a0And the information that she got even from the intelligence community was a little bit mixed.<\/p>\n<p>So she was basically talking about what she knew at those moments. \u00a0And I&#8217;ve got to tell you, Chuck, one of the things that we have to give her credit for is when she was turning over her emails, that email to her daughter, you could&#8217;ve easily considered that personal. \u00a0But because she mentioned the attacks, she included that in the stacks of emails that she turned over to the committee. \u00a0And that just goes to show you that she was trying to do the right thing.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>There&#8217;s been some talk that you and the rest of the Democrats might resign from the committee and not see this through. \u00a0Where are you on that this morning?<\/p>\n<p>ELIJAH CUMMINGS:<\/p>\n<p>We have decided to stay on the committee because somebody has to be in the room to defend the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. \u00a0And if you think about it, if you listen to the questions that were being asked by Republicans and the way they tried to attack her, you really did need to have Democrats in the room to give the other side of the story.<\/p>\n<p>Not so much as to defend her, but to try to make sure that the complete picture was painted. \u00a0One of the things that I have asked Chairman Gowdy to do is release all the transcripts with appropriate redactions for sensitivity. \u00a0Because I want the public to actually see what&#8217;s in these transcripts.<\/p>\n<p>Because I believe that once they see what&#8217;s in the transcripts, they will have a pretty good idea of what this is all about. \u00a0And it will verify what Congressman McCarthy said, it will verify what Congressman Hanna said and the self-described Republican conservative employee, what he said.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Very quickly, are you running for the U.S. Senate in Maryland?<\/p>\n<p>ELIJAH CUMMINGS:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m going to meet with my family and we&#8217;re going to make that decision. \u00a0When I&#8217;m not even in the race, by the way, and I&#8217;m leading by 13 points, it does give me an idea of how I would do. \u00a0So we&#8217;ll figure that out. \u00a0But right now, I didn&#8217;t want this to have anything to do with politics. \u00a0So I said that I would wait till Benghazi was over. \u00a0Hopefully it will be over and I&#8217;m hoping that Chairman Gowdy will give us a date certain to end this. \u00a0After all, we&#8217;ve now spent close to $5 million on this.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>All right. \u00a0Congressman Cummings, let the record show, you are paying attention to your polling in a race that you&#8217;re not yet in.<\/p>\n<p>ELIJAH CUMMINGS:<\/p>\n<p>Oh yeah, you&#8217;ve got to do that.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>All right. Congressman Cummings, thanks for coming on <em>Meet the Press<\/em>. \u00a0When we come back, who&#8217;s laughing now? \u00a0The ten days that some may believe just handed the Democratic nomination to Hillary Clinton.<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>It would be hard to imagine a campaign stretch that could&#8217;ve gone better for Hillary Clinton, a debate win, Joe Biden deciding not to run, and then Clinton coming out on the other side of the Benghazi hearings looking politically a lot better than the Republican committee members. \u00a0Substance is another story perhaps for the general election debate. \u00a0At the very least, Clinton won by not losing, a capstone to a ten-day period during which she tightened her grip on the Democratic nomination.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>Did any of you see our debate in Las Vegas?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Last night, a victory lap.<\/p>\n<p>CROWD:<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m with her! I\u2019m with her!<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Capping ten pivotal days. \u00a0If Hillary Clinton wins the Democratic nomination&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>Will you all caucus for me on February the 1st?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;October will go down as the month she secured it.<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s been quite a week, hasn&#8217;t it?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>In September, Clinton was licking her wounds, leading Bernie Sanders in national polls by just seven points. \u00a0Forced onto TV to explain the growing storm over her emails.<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>You know how much I love being interviewed.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>What a difference a month makes. \u00a0From October 13th, when Clinton quieted Democratic nerves at the first debate, with an assist from Senator Bernie Sanders.<\/p>\n<p>BERNIE SANDERS:<\/p>\n<p>The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn emails.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>To October 21st, when Vice President Joe Biden bowed out of the race.<\/p>\n<p>JOE BIDEN:<\/p>\n<p>I believe we&#8217;re out of time.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Ending 82 days of speculation about his own presidential ambitions.<\/p>\n<p>BILL CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;re old friends, we had a good talk.<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>If I know Joe, he&#8217;ll be right there with us on the front lines.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>To October 22nd, when Clinton survived an 11-hour hearing largely unscathed.<\/p>\n<p>HILLARY CLINTON:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m sorry that it doesn&#8217;t fit your narrative, congressman. \u00a0I can only tell you what the facts were.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>A string of successes has persuaded Democrats that she&#8217;s worth rallying behind. \u00a0At that Benghazi hearing, Clinton was good, not great. \u00a0But her opponents made her look polished and presidential by comparison.<\/p>\n<p>REP. PETER ROSKAM:<\/p>\n<p>I can pause while you&#8217;re reading your notes from your staff.<\/p>\n<p>REP. MIKE POMPEO:<\/p>\n<p>And I&#8217;m happy to bring breakfast in. \u00a0But when you&#8217;re asking and answering a question, it&#8217;d sure be helpful if we could get to the answer.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>On Friday, the nation&#8217;s largest public employee union endorsed Clinton. \u00a0Progressive blogger Markos Moulitsas tweeted, &#8220;Hillary was meh, with a significant portion of the activist left. \u00a0Thanks GOP, for helping change that.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>TREY GOWDY:<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t know what y&#8217;all were doing Thursday, I had a rough Thursday.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Clinton&#8217;s challenges are hardly over. \u00a0As she was testifying, F.B.I. Director James Comey was answering questions in the building next door about the ongoing investigation into her use of a private server.<\/p>\n<p>JAMES COMEY:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m confident we have the people and the resources to do it in the way I believe we do all our work, which is promptly, professionally, and independently.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>But Clinton has comforted Democrats who needed persuading that their front runner is determined to win.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Back in a moment with the growing uncertainty in the Republican race. \u00a0Wait till you hear what Jeb Bush said about all the cool things he&#8217;d rather be doing than running for president in this cycle.<\/p>\n<p>* * * COMMERCIAL BREAK * * *<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And we are back. Let\u2019s bring in the panel. John Harwood, CNBC\u2019s Chief Washington Correspondent, he\u2019ll be co-moderating the third Republican Presidential debate this Wednesday. Pulitzer prize winning historian Doris Kearns Goodwin, she\u2019s starting her Trump biography Jennifer Rubin writes the Right Turn column for the <em>Washington Post.<\/em> And Stephen Henderson, editorial page editor of the <em>Detroit Free Press<\/em>, you are here to represent the entire outside of the beltway.<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I want to start with a truly remarkable moment from Jeb Bush, let\u2019s see this whole thing again.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>JEB BUSH:<\/p>\n<p>If this election is about how we\u2019re gonna fight to get nothing done then I don\u2019t want anything&#8211; I don\u2019t want any part of it. \u00a0\u00a0I don\u2019t want to be elected president to just sit around and see gridlock just become so dominant that people are literally in decline in their lives. That is not my motivation.<\/p>\n<p>I got a lot of other really cool things I could do other than sit around being miserable, listening to people demonize me and me feeling compelled to demonize them. That is a joke. Elect Trump if you want that.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Doris?<\/p>\n<p>DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:<\/p>\n<p>Woah.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:<\/p>\n<p>I mean, compare that with how McCain handled himself in a similar situation in \u201807. He was cutting staff as Mr. Bush has, his poll numbers had gone down, he was in a bad place. And he said, \u201cIt\u2019s how you face a challenge politically and physically that determines your character and your courage.\u201d And he said I\u2019m going to be going on a bus, I\u2019m going to be lean and mean, and he said I\u2019m going to go out among the people. And eventually, Mac was back.<\/p>\n<p>I mean you have to take these moments of adversity, and you have to show strength and courage and forward optimism. You can\u2019t blame the process. You\u2019re it&#8211; you\u2019re in it.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>John, every presidential&#8211;every president has that political near-death political experience this is Jeb\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p>JOHN HARWOOD:<\/p>\n<p>Right he hopes it\u2019s a near-death experience<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Right, fair enough.<\/p>\n<p>JOHN HARWOOD:<\/p>\n<p>Look he set out on this race saying he was going to run only if he could do it with joy in his heart. That was an upset candidate right there who doesn\u2019t understand what is happening in the race. I think his whole family is a little taken aback by what is this Republican party, what\u2019s happening here, why?<\/p>\n<p>He\u2019s raised so much money, and I think he\u2019s gonna have to figure out a way. His staff says that the cutbacks were a way of adjusting to reality, becoming a new Jeb Bush campaign, we\u2019ll see if he can pull it off.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Jennifer, I want to play for you the first ad Ben Carson put up this week, and then I\u2019m gonna show you Jeb Bush\u2019s&#8211; sort of the first ones&#8211; one of the early ads the Super PAC put up. It\u2019s two different takes on this year, take a look<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>BEN CARSON:<\/p>\n<p>Washington is broken. The political class broke it. Together we can drain the swamp, and protect our children\u2019s future.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Pretty obvious that message, here\u2019s a Right to Rise, the Jeb Bush Super PAC, intro ad for Jeb.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>SAM ARD:<\/p>\n<p>If he didn&#8217;t like a project, it was going to be vetoed.<\/p>\n<p>WILL WEATHERFORD:<\/p>\n<p>It didn&#8217;t matter if you were Republican. \u00a0It didn&#8217;t matter if you were his best friend.<\/p>\n<p>TONI JENNINGS:<\/p>\n<p>He said, &#8220;This is where we&#8217;re going. \u00a0This is how we&#8217;re going to reform state government.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>BOB BURLESON:<\/p>\n<p>Every politician comes in talking about making change and clearly, there&#8217;s not much change. \u00a0But Governor Bush made a lot of changes.<\/p>\n<p>TONI JENNINGS:<\/p>\n<p>He got the nickname &#8220;Vito Corleone.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Ben Carson has read the poll numbers this year.<\/p>\n<p>JENNIFER RUBIN:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>I don&#8217;t know if Jeb Bush&#8217;s team has.<\/p>\n<p>JENNIFER RUBIN:<\/p>\n<p>What strikes me is not only the outsider\/insider, but how backward looking Jeb Bush&#8217;s ad was. \u00a0He&#8217;s talking about what he&#8217;s done. \u00a0His family has an esteemed record, one of the great political families of our era. \u00a0And it&#8217;s not enough this time. \u00a0I&#8217;m also struck in that opening segment that you showed, how small he seems. \u00a0How petty, how put upon.<\/p>\n<p>You have to rise above this. \u00a0The presidency is about being bigger than life, not smaller, about being optimistic. \u00a0I think he is so befuddled and so unhappy with this race, that the worst elements in him, rather than the best elements, are coming forward.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Stephen, I think the last time you were on, Jeb Bush had been in Detroit.<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Sort of introducing himself. \u00a0You saw him in March. \u00a0What do you see now?<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/p>\n<p>Well, we actually were starting to look at fundraising numbers for both Bush and Carson. \u00a0Carson leads Republicans in Michigan, leads Bush dramatically. \u00a0But what&#8217;s more interesting is how he&#8217;s leading. \u00a0He&#8217;s leading with small contributions in large numbers throughout the state. \u00a0People in the upper peninsula of Michigan are giving to the Carson campaign. \u00a0Bush&#8217;s support is concentrated in wealthy suburbs of Detroit, Grand Rapids&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>They&#8217;re obvious places.<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/p>\n<p>He&#8217;s got institutional support. \u00a0The trick is, neither one of them can win with that strategy alone. \u00a0They&#8217;ve got to blend the two. \u00a0Jeb Bush has got to connect with individual voters better. \u00a0Carson has got to get more institutional support. \u00a0Who knows what we&#8217;ll see by March.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You know, we got to bring in Donald Trump in here. \u00a0Because Jeb Bush clearly a little bit rattled by what&#8217;s going on. \u00a0But so is Donald Trump. \u00a0My gosh, he&#8217;s losing in two polls, and apparently the sky is falling. \u00a0First he attacked the pollsters, it was a Bloomberg\/<em>Des Moines Register<\/em> poll that had it in it. \u00a0Listen to what Trump said on Saturday attacking the pollsters:<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m number two in Iowa. \u00a0\u00a0I said, &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe it.&#8221; \u00a0One\u2019s Bloomberg, they hate me. \u00a0The other one is a super liberal newspaper, <em>the Des Moines Register<\/em> which is third rate, totally third rate, not respected in Iowa. \u00a0It&#8217;s a third-rate, crummy newspaper. \u00a0So I&#8217;ve got these two polls. \u00a0Bloomberg hates me, don&#8217;t forget, Michael did want to run for president. \u00a0Remember that.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Now the same poll, of course, used to have Trump ahead. \u00a0But then, he decided to take aim at Ben Carson.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>DONALD TRUMP:<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m Presbyterian. \u00a0Can you believe it? \u00a0Nobody believes I&#8217;m Presbyterian. \u00a0I&#8217;m Presbyterian. \u00a0I&#8217;m Presbyterian. \u00a0Boy, that&#8217;s down the middle of the road, folks. \u00a0In all fairness, I mean, Seventh Day Adventist I don&#8217;t know about.<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>He took that little shot, Doris, on the Sabbath for people that are Seventh Day Adventist. \u00a0So adding insult to injury here.<\/p>\n<p>DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:<\/p>\n<p>Well, I mean, I think the same thing we were saying about Jeb Bush is now important for Mr. Trump. \u00a0He&#8217;s in a moment of adversity. \u00a0How do you handle it? \u00a0I mean, the wonderful thing that Adlai Stevenson, my old friend said, my old friend, he said, \u201chow do you, but the challenge is not how to win an election, but how you win without proving yourself unworthy to win?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>These kind of comments are going to hurt not just the process, they&#8217;re going to hurt him, they&#8217;re going to hurt the general election. \u00a0And he&#8217;s got to figure out right now, he&#8217;s in trouble. \u00a0And even if it&#8217;s not big trouble. \u00a0And he can rise above it. \u00a0That&#8217;s what he&#8217;s going to have to do. \u00a0You can&#8217;t just give into it again.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>But this stuff hasn&#8217;t hurt him yet, John.<\/p>\n<p>JOHN HARWOOD:<\/p>\n<p>No, it hasn&#8217;t. \u00a0I do think though the question we&#8217;ve had about Trump is how long is he going to stay in this race, and is he only in it as long as it feels really good? \u00a0If he loses a caucus or a primary, is that going to be the moment where he says, &#8220;I&#8217;ve had enough of this&#8221;? \u00a0It is unusual that at a time when he&#8217;s still leading national polls, still leading in New Hampshire, still leading in South Carolina, he would be so unnerved by simply falling behind in a poll in Iowa. \u00a0And so it&#8217;s got to raise questions about how long he wants to do this.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, I mean, you know, Jennifer, it&#8217;s not surprising that he&#8217;s losing in Iowa. \u00a0Trump shouldn&#8217;t win it. \u00a0But Trump could still be the nominee, Mike Huckabee, Rick Santorum won it, and they weren&#8217;t nominees. \u00a0What&#8217;s he complaining about?<\/p>\n<p>JENNIFER RUBIN:<\/p>\n<p>Well, his entire schtick is built around his invincibility. \u00a0Everybody else is a loser. \u00a0He&#8217;s the only winner. \u00a0Everybody in government is stupid, he&#8217;s the only smart person. \u00a0So as soon as he&#8217;s not winning everywhere, then his aura of invincibility, that thing that drives him to be a winner, to be the alpha dog, is destroyed. \u00a0So there is a real question, I think, John. \u00a0I think you&#8217;re right, whether he&#8217;s going to stay in this if he isn&#8217;t leading everywhere in every poll. \u00a0That&#8217;s an expectation game that no one can possibly match.<\/p>\n<p>JOHN HARWOOD:<\/p>\n<p>And I want to defend the <em>Des Moines Register<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>One of the Midwest\u2019s great newspapers<\/p>\n<p>JOHN HARWOOD:<\/p>\n<p>I suspect that Donald Trump thought it was a better newspaper when he was leading.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And there&#8217;s no doubt. \u00a0You know, Stephen, for what it&#8217;s worth, Donald Trump refused to apologize for the knock on Dr. Carson and his religion because he&#8217;s never apologized for those things.<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/p>\n<p>Right. \u00a0Well I mean, I think this is the scary part of his campaign, this sort of strain of really awful divisiveness. \u00a0Much of it cloaked in religious terms that we&#8217;ve heard during this campaign. \u00a0And that&#8217;s not American. \u00a0It&#8217;s not the thing that I think is going to get someone the nomination. \u00a0But it&#8217;s playing for some reason among the electorate.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>You know what&#8217;s interesting here, John Harwood, is if you read today&#8217;s op-ed page in <em>The New York Times<\/em>, you were told that the frontrunner might really be Marco Rubio. \u00a0It&#8217;s a person we didn&#8217;t just talk about at all. \u00a0Do you buy that, very fast?<\/p>\n<p>JOHN HARWOOD:<\/p>\n<p>I think you could make that argument. \u00a0Look, it&#8217;s probably going to come down to an outsider candidate and an establishment candidate. \u00a0And the establishment candidate is likely to win in the end, once a one-on-one matchup occurs. \u00a0Who&#8217;s best positioned at this moment to claim that? \u00a0Maybe Marco Rubio.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019ll see. It\u2019s always been maybe with him. It&#8217;s always been a lot of maybes. \u00a0We&#8217;ll see. \u00a0When we come back we\u2019re going to talk more about the Democratic side of the aisle. Quick reminder here, a little plug for John. The Republican debate in Boulder, Colorado, will air on CNBC on Wednesday. \u00a0The undercard is at 6:00. \u00a0The big main event is at 8:00 Eastern. \u00a0MTP Daily, we&#8217;ll be out there in Boulder, live as well. \u00a0Maybe we&#8217;ll make John come on. \u00a0Back in just 45 seconds with our Endgame segment. \u00a0Did Mitt Romney really mean to say ObamaCare was a good thing after all?<\/p>\n<p>***COMMERCIAL BREAK***<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Time now for Endgame. The panel is back. Last night was a big Democrat event, the J-J dinner. Bernie Sanders is now going after Hillary Clinton more directly than he ever has before. Take a look.<\/p>\n<p>(BEGIN TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>BERNIE SANDERS:<\/p>\n<p>Some are trying to rewrite history by saying they voted for one anti-gay law to stop something worse. That\u2019s not the case. The Trans-Pacific Partnership. That agreement is not now, nor has it ever been, the gold standard of trade agreements. \u00a0I listened carefully to what Bush and Cheney and Rumsfeld had to say. \u00a0And I said, &#8220;No, they&#8217;re not telling the truth.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>(END TAPE)<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Stephen, he ticked it off there, Iraq war vote, the Defense of Marriage Act, TPP. \u00a0Hello, Clintons&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/p>\n<p>Where was this guy during the debate? That was what we wanted to hear him say during the Democratic debate. \u00a0And he didn&#8217;t. \u00a0He didn&#8217;t step to any of those challenges. \u00a0I think that some of this is about Bernie Sanders trying to change the internal dynamics in the party rather than hurt Hillary Clinton&#8217;s chances in the national election. \u00a0Speaking to Jeff Jack, he is all over her. \u00a0Speaking on a national stage, he&#8217;s way more conciliatory.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>What do you make of Bernie, Doris? \u00a0Is he Gene McCarthy? \u00a0Or could he be a little Barack Obama and actually take it to the next step?<\/p>\n<p>DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:<\/p>\n<p>Well, I think what he&#8217;s arguing, and it was interesting when you saw him at the Jeff Jack last night, coming with marchers behind a thing as if he was in an outside movement. \u00a0I mean, his greatest strength is to say that change comes to America when the outside and the inside come together. \u00a0And I&#8217;m bringing these people from the outside.<\/p>\n<p>It&#8217;s the way the abolitionists worked, it&#8217;s the way the anti-slavery people worked, it&#8217;s the way the women&#8217;s movement worked, the gay movement. \u00a0And he&#8217;s trying to say, &#8220;That&#8217;s the only way Washington is going to change is from the outside. \u00a0And I&#8217;m that movement.&#8221; \u00a0And there&#8217;s a strength in that but then once you get inside, you have to be able to make something happen. \u00a0I think the interesting thing in watching him last night was that you have to decide after that debate what happens to you internally. \u00a0And he&#8217;s decided to become more of a fighter. \u00a0Hillary, on the other hand, will have that confidence, more important than the polls, more important than the money she&#8217;s getting she can wake up in the morning now and feel, &#8220;I&#8217;ve done something.&#8221; \u00a0And maybe that whole sense of entitlement that she had at the beginning, where people thought she&#8217;s just dynastic, by having a rough patch as she did for so long, she now looks like the new fighter. \u00a0So it&#8217;s a good narrative for her campaign.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Very quickly, Jennifer, does the, do Republican Primary voters change their thinking the stronger she looks?<\/p>\n<p>JENNIFER RUBIN:<\/p>\n<p>I absolutely think so. I think that\u2019s one of the reasons that Marco Rubio is looking better. They are not going to be able to nominate just anyone. They&#8217;re going to have to have someone who&#8217;s articulate, who knows something about the issues. \u00a0Chris Christie likes to say, &#8220;I can prosecute the case against her.&#8221; \u00a0I think that has new resonance after we saw them not prosecute very well at the hearing.<\/p>\n<p>So I think Republican voters, as they get closer to the first elections, are going to say, &#8220;Who can we envision on that stage against Hillary?&#8221; \u00a0It&#8217;s going to be Hillary. \u00a0It&#8217;s not going to be Biden and it&#8217;s not going to be a weak Hillary&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>&#8211;Well.<\/p>\n<p>JENNIFER RUBIN:<\/p>\n<p>So who can we get to stand toe-to-toe with her?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Some people think if it goes to Cleveland, it could be Mitt Romney. \u00a0But let me tell you what Mitt Romney said about health care. \u00a0He was quoted, let me read you something here, he was quoted in an obituary for a good friend of his, the founder of Staples, Tom Stemberg.<\/p>\n<p>And he was quoted in the obituary as saying this. \u00a0This is Governor Romney. \u00a0&#8220;Without Tom pushing it,&#8221; referring to health care in general, getting more people health care, &#8220;I don&#8217;t think we would&#8217;ve had RomneyCare, and without RomneyCare, I don&#8217;t think we would&#8217;ve had ObamaCare. \u00a0So without Tom, a lot of people wouldn&#8217;t have health insurance.&#8221; \u00a0Sounded like pretty much like an endorsement&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/p>\n<p>He\u2019s back to his original position on that.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And then social media caught fire and he writes&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>JENNIFER RUBIN:<\/p>\n<p>No, I didn&#8217;t mean that.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Yeah well, this is what Romney wrote on Facebook a few hours later, &#8220;Getting people health insurance is a good thing. \u00a0And that&#8217;s what Tom Stemberg fought for. \u00a0I oppose ObamaCare and believe it has failed, it drove up premiums, took insurance away from people who were promised otherwise and usurped state programs as I said in the campaign. \u00a0I&#8217;d repeal it, replace it with state-crafted plans. \u00a0What do you make of it, John?<\/p>\n<p>JOHN HARWOOD:<\/p>\n<p>Perfect encapsulation of his great flaw as a candidate. \u00a0He was not comfortable being himself, owning up to who he was, what he had done. \u00a0That did not go over well at all.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>And yet, it&#8217;s almost he&#8217;s still worried about his own politics.<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/p>\n<p>Right, he&#8217;s not running for anything&#8211;<\/p>\n<p>DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:<\/p>\n<p>Right.<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HENDERSON:<\/p>\n<p>What difference does it make?<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Are you sure?<\/p>\n<p>DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:<\/p>\n<p>Well, well. Yet.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Well are you sure?<\/p>\n<p>STEPHEN HENDERSON<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m sure.<\/p>\n<p>CHUCK TODD:<\/p>\n<p>Okay. \u00a0That&#8217;s all we have for today. \u00a0We&#8217;ll be back next week with Mitt Romney&#8217;s announcement&#8211; \u00a0No, no, no, I&#8217;m kidding. \u00a0We&#8217;ll be back next week, because if it&#8217;s Sunday, it&#8217;s <em>Meet the Press<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p>* * *END OF TRANSCRIPT* * *<\/p>\n<p><strong>For more information, please contact<\/strong>:<\/p>\n<p>Olivia Petersen<\/p>\n<p>NBC News<\/p>\n<p>202-885-4159<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"mailto:olivia.petersen@nbcuni.com\">olivia.petersen@nbcuni.com<\/a><\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n<p><strong>MEET THE PRESS<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/media.ne.cision.com\/l\/fvnftikr\/www.nbcnews.com\/meet-the-press\">\u201cMeet the Press\u201d<\/a> is where newsmakers come to make news \u2014 setting the political agenda and spotlighting the impact Washington decision-making has on people across the country. \u201cMeet the Press\u201d reaches more than 3 million people every Sunday through its broadcasts and millions more through NBCNews.com, the #TweetThePress interview series, Flipboard, and social media platforms.\u00a0 Chuck Todd is the moderator of &#8220;Meet the Press&#8221; and John Reiss is the executive producer.<\/p>\n<p># # #<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Carson responds to Trump: \u201cI have plenty of energy\u201d Carson on his Nazi metaphors: \u201cI\u2019ve heard from many in the Jewish community, including rabbis, who said \u2018You are exactly right\u2019\u201d Exclusive: Rep. Cummings on possible Md. Senate run: \u201cWhen I\u2019m not even in the race, and I\u2019m leading by 13 points, it does give me [&#8230;]<\/p>\n<p><a class=\"btn btn-secondary understrap-read-more-link\" href=\"https:\/\/nbcuniversalnewsgroup.com\/nbcnews\/2015\/10\/25\/mtp-carson-compares-abortion-to-slavery-would-love-to-see-roe-v-wade-overturned\/\">Read More&#8230;<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> from MTP: CARSON COMPARES ABORTION TO SLAVERY, \u201cWOULD LOVE TO SEE\u201d ROE V. WADE OVERTURNED<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_access":"","_jetpack_dont_email_post_to_subs":false,"_jetpack_newsletter_tier_id":0,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paywalled_content":false,"_jetpack_memberships_contains_paid_content":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[9],"tags":[4,110],"class_list":["post-1003","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-meet-the-press","tag-feature","tag-meet-the-press"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.5 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>MTP: CARSON COMPARES ABORTION TO SLAVERY, \u201cWOULD LOVE TO SEE\u201d ROE V. 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