EXCLUSIVE: House Minority Leader Pelosi on future party leadership: “Right now we need experience”
EXCLUSIVE: House Speaker Ryan acknowledges Iran deal to stay in place: “A lot of that toothpaste is already out of the tube”
EXCLUSIVE: Ryan on more troops overseas: “We must destroy ISIS in Syria… That objective must be accomplished”
FEB. 5, 2017 — Vice President Mike Pence supports President Trump’s position towards Russian President Vladimir Putin, telling “Meet the Press” moderator Chuck Todd this morning that “President Trump has been willing to be critical of our country’s actions in the past” and that “we have a common interest with Russia” to destroy ISIS.
Pence responded to a Fox News interview excerpt in which Trump questions our country’s innocence in response to Putin’s characterization as a killer; when asked if there is a moral equivalency in this, Pence said, “no, not in the least.” Later in the interview, he added, “I don’t accept that it’s a moral equivalency. I really don’t, Chuck.”
When it comes to U.S. relations with Russia, Pence said that Trump has been clear that “maybe it’s not going to work out. But I think he’s absolutely determined.”
In an exclusive, on-set interview, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) responded to calls for new leadership in the party, telling Todd: “We have plenty of room for all kinds of leadership at every level. Right now we need experience as well as new leadership.”
Pelosi also called for an F.B.I. investigation into the president’s connections with Russia. “I want to know what the Russians have on Donald Trump,” she said.
House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) joined Todd for an exclusive interview Friday on Capitol Hill, acknowledging the Iran deal will stay in place: “I don’t think you’re going to go back and reconstitute the multilateral sanctions that were in place.”
The speaker also responded to the possibility of sending more troops into Syria to fight ISIS: “It’s in our vital national security interest. We must destroy ISIS in Syria. That objective must be accomplished.”
Plus: All three guests on “Meet the Press” weighed in on tonight’s N.F.L. Super Bowl, and with the Green Bay Packers out, Speaker Ryan put the odds on the New England Patriots.
Republican strategist Alex Castellanos, NBC News’ Andrea Mitchell, AEI’s Danielle Pletka and PBS’ Tavis Smiley also joined the show for insight and analysis.
For more from moderator Chuck Todd throughout the week, watch MSNBC’s “MTP Daily” weekdays at 5 p.m., and subscribe to “1947: The Meet The Press Podcast” for on-demand interviews.
MANDATORY CREDIT: NBC NEWS’ “MEET THE PRESS WITH CHUCK TODD”
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# # #
Full transcript of the program is below; other videos from this morning’s network broadcast include:
- Full Interview with Vice President Mike Pence http://nbcnews.to/2lc4JP7
- Full Interview with House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi http://nbcnews.to/2lcmiP1
- Full Interview with House Speaker Paul Ryan http://nbcnews.to/2lcllpA
- Pence: President ‘Has Every Right to Criticize’ Other Branches http://nbcnews.to/2lc7dgm
- Ryan: Republicans Still Committed to ‘Repeal and Replace’ Obamacare Strategy http://nbcnews.to/2lctDxW
- Ryan: ‘Polarization’ Can Be Healed Despite Sustained Protests http://nbcnews.to/2lcm3DB
- Beer & Gaga: Super Bowl Reveals Political Divisions http://nbcnews.to/2lceoFg
- Mike Murphy: A Never-Trumper Offers Advice for Democrats http://nbcnews.to/2lcr3YP
- Post Game: Where Does Rex Tillerson Begin at the State Department? http://nbcnews.to/2lcfh0y
- comPRESSed: Watch “Meet the Press” in Less Than Two Minutes http://nbcnews.to/2lclZ6P
NBC News – Meet The Press
“2.5.2017”
CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday, confrontation and chaos. The fight over President Trump’s travel ban. The president vows to get the restrictions reinstated after a judge temporarily blocks them, calling the ruling ridiculous, and tweeting about “this so-called judge.” But what are travelers supposed to do now? Plus, President Trump’s head-spinning week: a Supreme Court pick.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
Outstanding legal skills, a brilliant mind, tremendous discipline, and has earned bipartisan support.
CHUCK TODD:
Putting Iran on notice, softening his support for new Israeli settlements, and holding testy talks with allies Mexico and Australia.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
When you hear about the tough phone calls I’m having, don’t worry about it.
CHUCK TODD:
We have an all-star lineup of guests this morning: Vice President Mike Pence, Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi. Finally, this Super Bowl Sunday, how everything has become political, right down to the beer you drink while watching the game.
Joining me for insight and analysis are Andrea Mitchell of NBC News, Tavis Smiley, host of the Tavis Smiley Show on PBS, Republican strategist Alex Castellanos and Danielle Pletka of The American Enterprise Institute. Pence, Ryan, Pelosi, a packed house. Welcome to Super Bowl Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
CHUCK TODD:
Good morning. And a happy Super Bowl Sunday to everyone. Saturdays are becoming protest Saturdays under President Trump. For the third weekend in a row, thousands of people rallied in cities across the country. Once again, in opposition to President Trump. This week’s issue: the travel ban, targeted mainly at Muslims.
The Trump administration moved to get the travel restrictions immediately reinstated. But overnight, a Federal Appeals Court temporarily denied that request, instead calling for a full hearing on Monday. Here’s what the president had to say at a Red Cross gala last night at Mar-a-Lago.
The president had a lot to say yesterday before that, mainly on Twitter. One example: “When a country is no longer able to say who can and who cannot come in and out, especially for reasons of safety and security, big trouble.” Well, the president has taken great pains to deny his travel restrictions amount to a Muslim ban. Four times yesterday, he did refer to his policy as a “ban” in tweets. Two weeks into the Trump presidency, we’re learning the answer to the campaign riddle: should we take Donald Trump literally or seriously? The answer appears to be: both.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
The world is in trouble. But we’re going to straighten it out, okay?
CHUCK TODD:
Donald Trump is lashing out, tweeting on Saturday: “The opinion of this so-called judge, which he essentially takes law enforcement away from our country is ridiculous and will be overturned.” Federal judge James Robart, appointed to the bench by George W. Bush, explained his decision blocking Mr. Trump’s travel ban on Friday night.
HON. JAMES ROBART:
The state has met its burden of demonstrating that it faces immediate and irreparable injury.
CHUCK TODD:
Visas issued before the executive order have once again been declared valid for now. The travel ban confusion in the latest twist in a chaotic week and has even long-time U.S. allies asking, “Can the world handle Donald Trump style diplomacy?”
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
When you hear about the tough phone calls I’m having, don’t worry about it.
CHUCK TODD:
President Trump is aggressive, tangling with long-time U.S. allies Mexico and Australia.
BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN:
Don’t hang up–
CHUCK TODD:
On tour in Melbourne, Australia, Bruce Springsteen didn’t pull any punches.
BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN:
We stand before you, embarrassed Americans tonight. (CHUCKLE)
CHUCK TODD:
And neither did Republicans on Capitol Hill.
(BEGIN TAPE)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
If politics is music, the president was off-key.
(END TAPE)
(BEGIN TAPE)
SEN JOHN McCAIN:
This, in my view, was an unnecessary and, frankly, harmful open dispute.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
President Trump can be unexpected, warning Israel that new settlement construction may not be helpful in achieving peace. Or ambiguous: his administration, led by National Security Advisor Michael Flynn, is ratcheting up its rhetoric on Iran.
MICHAEL FLYNN:
We are officially putting Iran on notice.
CHUCK TODD:
And levying new sanctions to punish Iran for its ballistic missile tests.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
They’re not behaving.
CHUCK TODD:
But refusing to say whether the Trump Administration will keep the Iran nuclear deal intact. And there are mixed messages to Russia, as President Putin tests Mr. Trump in Eastern Ukraine. Amid continuing protests and confusion around the world, and even at his own doorstep, the president is defending his aggressive approach to foreign policy, reiterating, once again, in the video address–
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
From now on, it’s going to be America first.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
And joining me now is the vice president of the United States, Mike Pence. Mr. Vice President, thanks for coming in.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Yeah, good to see you, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me start with the overnight developments and the ban. We have now had– there’s ten different suits in various courts.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Right.
CHUCK TODD:
Obviously, the big one now is the one in Washington State. Let me ask you the question this way. And I know you’re pursuing an appeal to this decision.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
We are.
CHUCK TODD:
Is it time to sort of cut bait and say, “You know what? Rescind the order. Go through Congress.” Because there is support for the idea, but the specifics appear to be a challenge for you. Any thought of essentially rescinding and trying again?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
From the outset of his campaign for president, and the outset of this administration, President Trump has made it clear. He’s going to put the safety and security of the American people first. And using a list of countries that the Obama administration and the Congress have certified were compromised by terrorist influence, seven different countries, permanently suspending immigration from Syria and suspending, for a set period of time in the remaining six countries, is consistent with the President’s commitment to do just that. We’re very confident the President’s operating within his authority as president, both under the constitution, and under clear statutory law. That’s what’s so frustrating about the decision–
CHUCK TODD:
Well, in all honesty, though–
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
–by the Washington judge.
CHUCK TODD:
–the statutory law is confusing. Because there is the one–
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Not really, Chuck. Not really–
CHUCK TODD:
–that you’re referring to in 1952, but there’s the one that was passed in the ’60s that seems that some people believe makes this unconstitutional.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Well, look, when you have people as diverse as Alan Dershowitz and Jonathan Turley, who have acknowledged the merits of the President’s action under the constitution and the law, I think it speaks for itself. We’re very confident that we’re going to prevail. We’ll accomplish the stay and will win the case on the merits. But again, the focus here is on the safety and security–
CHUCK TODD:
Well–
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
–of the American people.
CHUCK TODD:
And that’s why my question on the idea of sort of pulling it. Because if this is a concern, and this is something that you can’t wait, you and I both know, the court system’s going to take a while. This could take weeks, maybe months. Why not do this in a way where you have proper consultations with different departments? There was a part of this that many Republicans in Congress believe it was done hastily. You have an opportunity to now do a do-over. Why not?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Yeah. It was not done hastily. There may have been some leaders on Capitol Hill that were not informed in the usual niceties of Washington D.C.. But look, we live in a very dangerous world. The reality is there the people around the globe who have inspired violence here in the homeland.
We just saw in the basement of the Louvre a machete-wielding terrorist from Egypt that came into that country. I mean the American people know that the threats that we face are real and they elected President Donald Trump for many reasons. But one of them was for us to rethink our immigration policies relative to ensuring that people who represent a threat to our families and communities don’t come into this country. We’ll continue to press that. And we remain very confident that the President’s actions are on solid constitutional and legal grounds.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, let me take you at your word on that. You just brought up the Louvre issue. You noted that the person came through from Egypt.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Right.
CHUCK TODD:
But on this travel ban, no Egypt, no Saudi Arabia.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Right.
CHUCK TODD:
No Pakistan, no Afghanistan. That is– if this is your concern, then why weren’t those countries included? It does feel as if it’s sort of– it was more done because you wanted that Obama talking point.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Well, no. It was done because both the Congress and the prior administration identified seven countries, one in Syria, torn asunder by civil war, and the other six that lack– here’s the issue. As Secretary Kelly said so well in that press conference.
The issue is these are countries that do not have the internal systems in place so that we can be confident today that, when people present themselves for access to the United States, that they are who they say they are. Now, there’s a 30-day review underway. There’s a temporary suspension. We’re going to work with those remaining six countries to make recommendations for ways that they can enhance.
But the other countries that you mentioned– the United States, our policy has been that we’re confident that, when someone comes from that country, that they are, in fact, who they say they are. But this is, again, this is really about the safety and security of the American people. It is not a religious ban. It is a–
CHUCK TODD:
But did the president confuse things–
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
It is a ban of people coming into this country from countries for which we cannot be confident that they don’t represent a threat.
CHUCK TODD:
But did the president undermine your case here on the religious ban when he told the Christian Broadcasting Network that they would prioritize Christians?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Well, I think the president was reflecting on the fact that Christians who have faced persecution across the wider Middle East have not been treated–
CHUCK TODD:
But that’s– So it’s a religious test.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
–oftentimes the same as others. And it’s not a religious test. I know–
CHUCK TODD:
I mean but–
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
–people have been straining to do that.
CHUCK TODD:
No–
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
It identified seven countries, irrespective of the religious composition of those countries, seven countries have been compromised by terrorism. And I got to tell you, look, we respect the right of every American to be heard in protest, online, their messages. And that’s what freedom looks like. And that’s what freedom sounds like.
But I truly do believe that a majority of the American people are grateful that we have a president who’s willing to take decisive action, use the authority he has under the constitution and the law to pause with regard to these seven countries, and rethink the way that we admit people to America.
CHUCK TODD:
So you don’t accept the notion that you guys did this a little too hastily and a little sloppy?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
We live in a dangerous world. I think the American people welcome a president as decisive and as action-oriented as President Trump.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to ask you about the President’s criticism, he called him a “so-called judge.”
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
That is the leader of the executive branch saying– you know, that made a lot of people uncomfortable. I know your answer is, “Hey, this is Donald Trump. People need to get used to it.” But there is a tendency here to just not take criticism constructively or seriously. He accused Chuck Schumer of having fake tears. It’s like any time he gets some sort of critique, he wants to demonify them, you know, make them go away. Is that healthy?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Well, look, the president of the United States has every right to criticize the other two branches of government. And we have a long tradition of that in this country. But I think–
CHUCK TODD:
But is this a constructive way to do it?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
I think people find it very refreshing that they not only understand this president’s mind but they understand how he feels about things. He expresses himself in a unique way. And again, the judge’s actions, look, the judge’s actions in this case in Washington, which are at odds with the federal district court judge in Boston, who upheld the constitutionality of the president’s actions, the judge’s actions in this case, making decisions about American foreign policy and national security, it’s just very frustrating to the president, to our whole administration, to millions of Americans who want to see judges that will uphold the law and recognize–
CHUCK TODD:
Well, all he did was put a pause.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
–the authority the president of the United States has under the constitution to manage who comes into this country.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, all he did was put a pause. But on this issue of criticism, I found something you said about President Obama seven years ago. Take a listen.
(BEGIN TAPE)
MIKE PENCE:
This president has shown an unusual interest in commenting on his critics in the media and here on Capitol Hill. The American people don’t want to hear the president’s reflections and commentary on criticism.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Look, and I know that when one person’s party’s in power, the other party says things like that. But that is what Congressman Mike Pence thought of when presidents got too caught up in their criticisms. Should the president take the advice of Congressman Mike Pence?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Well, my hair’s the same color as it was back then. But, you know, I’ve learned a lot. I’ve learned a lot about–
CHUCK TODD:
You think this–
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Sure, the prerogative presidents have to be able to respond to their critics. Look, the president of the United States represents all the American people. And in President Donald Trump, just like his predecessor, he’s going to exercise the prerogative to criticize other branches of government when he thinks that they’re not acting in a way that’s consistent with the best interests of the American people.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. I got to ask you to respond to something, an excerpt of the Super Bowl interview the President’s doing about Vladimir Putin. Here it is.
(BEGIN TAPE)
BILL O’REILLY:
Do you respect Putin?
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
I do respect him. Will I get along with him? I have no idea. It’s very possible I won’t.
BILL O’REILLY:
He’s a killer, though. Putin’s a killer.
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:
There are a lot of killers. We get a lot of killers. What, you think our country’s so innocent?
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Moral equivalency?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
No.
CHUCK TODD:
Is there a moral equivalency there? What was that, Mr. Vice President?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
No, not in the least. Not in the least. I mean look, President Trump has been willing to be critical of our country’s actions in the past. And– But what you’re hearing there is a determination by the president of the United States to not let semantics or the arguments of the past get in the way of exploring the ability to work together with Russia and with President Putin in the days ahead–
CHUCK TODD:
But–
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
–specifically, if you played the rest of that interview–
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
–he said he didn’t know if we would be able to get along with him better. But the president’s top priority is to hunt down and destroy ISIS at its source. We have a common interest with Russia to do that. The president’s made it very clear he doesn’t know whether he’ll have–
CHUCK TODD:
But are you–
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
–better relationship with Russia.
CHUCK TODD:
I mean you know the Putin record here. Let me just put it up here. Obviously, a former KGB agent, in itself, an institution of mass killings. What he’s done to fund and promote the separatists in Eastern Ukraine, proxy wars that he’s gotten involved in that, of course, ended up in the killing of innocent passengers on MH17. Then there’s the list of mysterious deaths that are Putin-related. This is not something– what American leader has done something similar? That’s what the president seemed to say there.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
No, that’s not what the president said in the least.
CHUCK TODD:
Then why can’t he say a negative thing about Vladimir Putin?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Well, he has expressed himself in the campaign, an election that he won, that he was determined to go forward and see whether or not we might be able to start anew in a relationship with Russia. I mean the president has said many times if we got along with Russia better, that would be a good thing for the world. If we were able to work with Russia to hunt down and destroy ISIS and confront radical Islamic terrorism, that would be a good thing.
And what you have in President Trump is someone who is not going to look in the rear view mirror so much as looking out the windshield. But he’s also made it very clear, Chuck, maybe not, maybe it’s not going to work out. But I think he’s absolutely determined. He had a productive conversation with President Putin.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
He spoke to the Ukrainian President Poroshenko yesterday about the need to maintain the ceasefire. He’s going to continue to engage these world leaders. He’s going to put America first. And he’s going to look, as he always does, for a way that we can move forward and make a deal that will advance the interests of the United States.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you comfortable with using those same words to describe Vladimir Putin?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Well, using what words?
CHUCK TODD:
That, basically, you know, “Yeah, he’s a bad guy, but we’ve done some bad things, too.” Are you comfortable with that moral equivalency?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Again, I don’t accept that it’s a moral equivalency. I really don’t, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
You think he misspoke?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
I– no. I truly believe– look, President Trump has been critical of American policy in the past. And I expect he’s always going to continue to be candid with the American people. But what you have in this president is an absolute determination to re-engage the world. I see it in the telephone calls with world leaders. We saw it when Prime Minister May came. But it’s to re-engage world leaders on American interests, to bring American strength back to the world stage.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
And President Donald Trump, people know that here’s someone who knows how to put a deal together.
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
And if he can make a deal with Russia or other countries that’s going to advance the security of the American people and advance the interests of peace in the world, we’re going to look to do that.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Vice President Pence, I’m going to leave it there. I know you’re about to go to the Super Bowl. Do you have a rooting interest?
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
You know, the Indianapolis Colts are not there. So I’ll be on neutral ground. But no, it’s going to be a great game.
CHUCK TODD:
Well then–
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
We’re going to be very humble to have the opportunity to travel with a couple of America’s heroes that we’ll be able to bring down to the Super Bowl today.
CHUCK TODD:
And I know we’re all looking forward to seeing former President Bush toss that coin.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Oh, yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
That’ll be great to see.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Yeah, what a blessing.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Mr. Vice President, thanks for coming in and sharing your views. I appreciate it.
VICE PRESIDENT MIKE PENCE:
Thanks, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD: Coming up, two very different perspectives on the first two weeks of the Trump presidency: the current Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, and the former speaker and now minority leader, Nancy Pelosi.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Panel is here: Tavis Smiley, host of The Tavis Smiley Show on PBS, Danielle Pletka of The American Enterprise Institute, Andrea Mitchell, NBC News, chief foreign affairs correspondent, and Republican strategist Alex Castellanos. Welcome, everybody. Andrea, where does this stand? Where’s this headed?
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Well, possibly, for a constitutional crisis. But I think not, because overnight, the administration, State Department, Homeland, agreed with lifting the ban as it applied to people who had been restricted. And they are following the judge’s order. Now this judge is likely, you know, the appeals court has to weigh in. This could end up in the Supreme Court. There’s a long process. I think the problem that Donald Trump is creating for himself is a political one. By tweeting the “so-called judge,” and by criticizing the judiciary, he is raising the bar. He’s making it more difficult for a very credible nominee to the Supreme Court in his confirmation hearings. Now, what you’re going to have is another pretext, not just Merrick Garland, which they believe is a real pretext, for Democrats to challenge this nominee on every aspect of the separation of powers, and whether or not he agrees with the president who has nominated him.
CHUCK TODD:
Danielle, should they be cutting bait here? I mean isn’t this an opportunity, if they want to do it, basically, do a do-over?
DANIELLE PLETKA:
I don’t think this is the kind of administration that wants to do a do-over. And to be perfectly fair, I don’t think Barack Obama would have taken a do-over, either. I think they’re going to let this process play out and hopefully use the time that’s available to them to put the thought and the process in that they didn’t put in before. Because the problem here is not actually one of substance. Barack Obama did many of the things that are actually in this executive order. It’s all about the how. It’s not necessarily about the what. Whether it’s the tweeting, or it’s the judge, or it’s Russia, or it’s this immigration stuff, it’s actually all about style, not about substance.
CHUCK TODD:
You buy that? All style?
TAVIS SMILEY:
I think it’s about style and substance. It’s a bit of both, number one. Number two, I’m from Indiana, as you know, and I saw the vice president in the green room, so we chatted. And I like him as a person. But it’s tough to sit there and watch him twist like a pretzel to try to defend a presidency that is clearly so unprincipled on these issues, number one.
Number two, I would take exception to one thing. I think you’re probably right, Chuck, it is not a moral equivalency, but it is, to my mind, an immoral equivalency. Which is to say that Dr. King was a frequent guest on this very program. And 50 years ago in April of this year, in his “beyond Vietnam” speech, used these words. He called America “the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” So it’s not a moral equivalency, it’s an immoral equivalency. And on this one issue, President Trump is right, that we are not a perfect country. Now, Vladimir Putin’s a bad guy. But I’m not ever going to get into a situation where I’m trying to defend all that America has done. So your question was, “What has the president done?” Maybe not the president, but the apparatus of the American military state, we could have that conversation.
CHUCK TODD:
Still, do you want to be defending Putin?
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
Well, I think you see a president here that sees a very different geopolitical arrangement.
CHUCK TODD:
Oh, yes he does.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
I think this president sees that China is the new Russia, not Russia. And he sees a different geometry. And there may be opportunities where Russian interests and ours align.
CHUCK TODD:
Yes.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
And that’s why I think you see him changing here. But, you know, we’re judging Donald Trump, I think, differently than we should. We’re saying, “Oh my god, Donald Trump is unpredictable.” Well, we had a very predictable president for eight years. And it led to an unpredictable and uncertain world. Donald Trump’s unpredictability in these matters, on one hand, he pushes Putin back–
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
–saying, “You want an arms race? You got one.”
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
On the other hand, there are times we can work together. You’re seeing, I think, that Donald Trump’s unpredictability is a form of deterrence. It keeps bad people a step back–
TAVIS SMILEY:
It’s not unpredictability, it’s being unprincipled, Alex. Those are two very different things.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
No, I think that’s– no, I think he’s very clear in his principles.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
I think part of it is that facts matter. And the way they rolled this out, where they did not, despite all their claims to the contrary, they did not listen to the experts at the Pentagon and at Homeland. If they had left out the ban on visa holders and green card holders and legitimate people, they wouldn’t have had this problem. But the other issue is, even on Putin, to say what he said about Putin to Bill O’Reilly is extraordinary. You’ve got a man now in the hospital who had just recovered from extreme organ failure, who is now clearly poisoned, in a Moscow hospital. You’ve got so many instances, not just individual, but on a large scale. And to ignore that and to say, “Well, he’ll help us against ISIS,” how is he helping us against ISIS when he is not bombing ISIS targets, he is bombing the legitimate opposition to Assad? And when he’s using Iranians and propping up Iran? The president doesn’t seem to understand these alliances.
CHUCK TODD:
Go ahead.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
You’re not going to get me to disagree with you on a lot of these things. But let us separate out what’s happened in the last week from the things that Donald Trump has said. If, in the first week of the Trump presidency he had put in place a– let’s not call it a travel ban– but he had limited the immigration from certain countries and put in what he calls “extreme–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
He keeps calling it a ban, despite denials–
TAVIS SMILEY:
It is a ban, Danielle, it is.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
I don’t think that’s a relevant discussion. And I have established that I’m not a fan of this. The point here is that it is the way they do everything. If Donald Trump hadn’t said that, is it okay to say, “You know what? I want to start fresh with Vladimir Putin. Maybe he can help us beat ISIS.” Obama did that. The problem is not any of the substantive things, it’s how they do them.
CHUCK TODD:
Is it they? I think we’ll pause it here.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Well, that may be.
CHUCK TODD:
But the question: is it they? Or is it him?
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Is it him?
CHUCK TODD:
And I think that we will save for the next time we bring you guys back in a few minutes. But when we come back, we’re going to hear from top players on both sides of the political aisle from Congress, Speaker of the House Paul Ryan and one of his predecessors: House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. Late last night, I reached out to Speaker of the House Paul Ryan about that federal judge’s order blocking the enforcement of President Trump’s immigration restriction. Speaker Ryan’s office provided Meet The Press with this statement saying in part, “What’s important is his administration is complying with the ruling and taking the proper steps to resolve the issue quickly. This is our system of divided government, and I’m confident that when the process runs its course the order will be upheld.” On Friday I sat down with Speaker Ryan on Capitol Hill and at the time he said the President’s policy did not amount to a ban but that its implementation could have been handled better. He agreed with President Trump that some travel restrictions are needed. And we also talked about a broad range of subjects, beginning with whether he’d like to get out of the Iran nuclear deal.
(BEGIN TAPE)
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I never supported the deal in the first place. I thought it was a huge mistake. But the multilateral sanctions are done. So–
CHUCK TODD:
Done meaning you’re not going to be able to put that back together–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Yeah, I don’t think you’re going to go back and reconstitute the multilateral sanctions that were in place.
CHUCK TODD:
Should we try, though?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
So, I don’t think we– I think we should expend our effort where it can pay off the most. And that’s why I think what they’re doing now does make a lot of sense. So I think the key is to rigorously enforce this deal. But also, remember, they’re testing ballistic missiles. They’re still the largest state sponsor of terrorism in the world. Human rights abuses galore.
And so those are where I think we also need to ratchet up sanctions. I think what this administration is doing, which I agree with, is saying, “We have a new administration, and we’re going to hold you, Iran, to account.” This last administration did not do that. This new administration needs to do that. And I think that’s what you’re getting here.
CHUCK TODD:
Where is the line here? Are you concerned that Iran might retaliate, and suddenly we’re a part of the proxy war in Yemen? I mean–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
But look what they were doing, we’re appeasing them already. So it couldn’t get worse–
CHUCK TODD:
You thought too much appeasement–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
–yeah, it couldn’t get any worse than what we already had. So I think they need to know that they’re going to be held to account. Because if left– If we don’t do that, then they’re going to go off and do all these other things. Remember, they are a belligerent force in the Middle East. Look at what they’re trying to do to destabilize the region with all their proxies. Look at what they’re doing to finance terrorism, their human rights abuses, testing ballistic missiles. You see they write on the side of their ballistic missiles in Hebrew, Farsi and English, “Death to Israel and death to America.” This is not a peaceful nation.
CHUCK TODD:
You were tough on candidate Trump.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Yeah, we had our–
CHUCK TODD:
Let’s make no–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
–we had our share of disagreements.
CHUCK TODD:
You had your– But more of it has to do with, you just sort of have two different outlooks. When the president fired the assistant attorney general, he said she betrayed the Department of Justice. The point is he takes a very negative tone. You don’t. Is that something that you think over time is going to hurt the Republican party?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Well, we’ve always had different kinds of Republicans throughout our party. It’s a big tent party. You know me, I’m kind of a happy warrior, Jack Kemp conservative.
CHUCK TODD:
Jack Kemp wouldn’t have described America’s inner cities as American carnage.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Yeah, no. I mean, neither would I. I think, really, what matters at the end of the day are the results. What I’m focused on Chuck, is not, I’m not going on Twitter and seeing what the latest tweet was. I’m not turning on the TV. I’m focused on delivering results. We ran on specific reforms, specific solutions that we believe will improve people’s lives. That’s why we’re here. That’s why people gave us these jobs and this responsibility.
And so really, what I’m focused on is that. Get the policies done. Make good on our promises and reforms, to make people’s lives better in this country, whether it’s prosperity or peace and security. And what, at the end of the day, matters so that we will have a successful Republican president, a successful Republican party, if that’s the base of your question, are the results of this party that has been given this great responsibility.
CHUCK TODD:
Is there, I guess is there a point where you just feel as if, that, you know what, this is moving too harshly? That given he was elected in such a divided country, that he has not–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
–has he done enough to try to heal division? And I know that you can play some of this and say, “Okay, the other side isn’t accepting defeat.” But has he done enough to–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I think he’s just going to feel–
CHUCK TODD:
–be big in his victory?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I think he’s going to feel his way through this. And look, what I’m excited about is that he wants to hit the ground running, and he wants, he’s very much a man of action. And we have conversations at 11 o’clock at night on policy matters.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah, but are protest Saturdays sustainable in this country? Is this a sustainable political environment?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Well, we can get to the Left in a minute. He’s hit the ground running extremely hard. He’s doing a lot. And there’s a lot that needs to be done. What I’m excited about is how ambitious he wants to be on following through on the promises that we made in the campaign, so that we can execute these good ideas and these policies. That’s what’s going to matter.
All the division, the polarization in America, I think a lot of it can be healed if we get people back to work. If we help get people out of poverty. If we keep us safe. If we get faster economic growth and more jobs and higher wages. If we can fix these problems that are solvable in this country, that’s what’s going to matter at the end of the day.
CHUCK TODD:
I can’t believe I’m going to use the words “very quick” and “healthcare” in the same sentence, ’cause it’s an impossibility. But I have noticed, a lot of people have noticed, whether it’s Lamar Alexander who’s on Senate Health Committee, yourself the other day, “repair” is a new buzzword. And if you look at some of the replacement bills that are out there, there are lots– good chunks of Obamacare that stay alive. Is that where this is headed? That it’s going to be some hybrid of a big chunk of Obamacare–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
–whatever it looks like?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
No, I think there’s– I don’t know what happened, but maybe somewhere in the press this kind of got crosswise. If you’re going to repair the American health care system, and fix its problems, you have to repeal Obamacare and replace it with something better. Patient-centered health care. And that is how you repair this health care system. I think somewhere along the line, there was a misco–
CHUCK TODD:
This wasn’t a way to condition the public that–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Yeah, somewhere along the line there was confusion that we were going to take the Obamacare architecture and, you know, tinker at the margins and repair it. You can’t. It is a collapsing law. Five states have one plan to choose from. A third of all the counties in America have one plan to choose from. 70 percent of all counties in America have one or two plans to choose from. That’s a monopoly or a duopoly. Premiums are going up double digits. Deductibles are so high, doesn’t even feel like you have health insurance. So the law is literally in the middle of a collapse. And it’s our duty as representatives of our constituents, of the American people, to step in front of this crash and rescue people from this collapsing health care system, and replace it with something better.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
That was Speaker Paul Ryan. And you can see the complete interview on Meet-The-Press-NBC-dot-com. Let me turn to the Democrats now. I’m joined by the former Speaker of the House and the current Democratic leader in the House, Nancy Pelosi. Madam Leader, welcome back to Meet the Press.
NANCY PELOSI:
My pleasure to be here on Super Bowl Sunday.
CHUCK TODD:
Super Bowl Sunday. Let me ask you first on the travel ban here. Would you at all be willing to work with the Trump administration on legislation that if they asked the Congress to essentially come up with something that would allow for some temporary suspension, some new vetting, would you be willing to work with the administration on something like that?
NANCY PELOSI:
We take an oath to protect and defend the Constitution and the American people and, as long as we’re honoring the Constitution, we’re willing to work. Now, as President Obama did in 2011, we always have to subject our vetting to scrutiny to see if it’s working. But that doesn’t mean we institute an unconstitutional, immoral ban on Muslims coming into the country.
But what’s interesting to me is this is kind of a diversionary tactic. You heard the Speaker talk about jobs and what did we expect? What was the election about? The election was about improving the lives of the American people, about the future, about jobs,
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
NANCY PELOSI:
–financial stability and the rest. Where is their initiative for that? So when they don’t do something they have a diversionary tactic: a Muslim ban. When that isn’t working, they move up the appointment of a justice of the Supreme Court. Let me just contrast it to President Obama. President Obama on the steps of the Capitol, eight years ago, said “I call for swift, bold action now to create jobs and to educate our kids for the jobs of the 21st century.”
CHUCK TODD:
Well, he is two weeks in. You don’t say he’s not doing that.
NANCY PELOSI:
No, but let me–
CHUCK TODD:
They would make the argument they’ve done something.
NANCY PELOSI:
Let me give the timetable.
CHUCK TODD:
Very quickly. Okay.
NANCY PELOSI:
Let me give the time table. One week and one day later, the Congress passed the ARRA: the American Reinvestment and Recovery Act. A week or so later, the Senate passed the bill on the 17th of September, the congress – the president signed a bill that created or saved 3.5-4 million jobs. That was the initiative of the president for jobs. Where is their initiative?
So in order to deflect from not doing that – they’re doing a travel ban, which is not making the American people safe, that is unconstitutional and even undermines —
CHUCK TODD:
All right.
NANCY PELOSI: — what the evangelicals call – evangelicals call – the crown jewel of humanitarianism of America: our refugee resettlement program.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you, though, about the role the Democratic Party should be playing overall. I want to play something Elizabeth Warren said yesterday in a speech in Baltimore. Take a listen.
(BEGIN TAPE)
ELIZABETH WARREN:
America elected Donald Trump. And, yeah, the Russians helped. And, yeah, the FBI director helped. And, yeah, he lost the popular vote by three million votes. But we cannot let ourselves off the hook so easily, not as progressives, not as Democrats. The excuses end now.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
How do you respond to her? Because you were just making a case that the Obama administration and the Democrats were in charge were being responsive. Elizabeth Warren is saying, “No, the Democrats weren’t.” What do you say to her?
NANCY PELOSI:
Well, I think she went further to say that it wasn’t about what we have done, it’s how we did not message it. And that is some–
CHUCK TODD:
No, but she said no. She actually said the opposite. It’s not about a new set of talking points.
NANCY PELOSI:
No, that’s–
CHUCK TODD:
It’s actually about policies that aren’t working for those folks enough.
NANCY PELOSI:
Well, but they have. Let’s see the record. The record is that– what did we do? We bailed out the auto industry, saving so many jobs, millions, when you take the indirect increase in jobs in that area. The Republicans, at the time, said this would be interfering with the free market system if we bailed out the auto industry. They were on their heels. They’re now on top of the world.
But let me just go back to the first part of the Senator’s statement. I want to know what the Russians have on Donald Trump. I think we have to have an investigation by the F.B.I. into his financial, personal and political connections to Russia.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
NANCY PELOSI:
And we want to see his tax returns so we can have truth–
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
NANCY PELOSI:
–in the relationship between Putin, whom he admires, and Donald Trump.
CHUCK TODD:
But I want to go back to the issue of Democrats having lost touch with the rust belt, with a lot of voters in there that used to be– and I guess I want to ask it this way, which is does the Democratic Party need new leaders to touch base on this stuff? Whether it’s Hillary Clinton, yourself, Chuck Schumer, you’ve all been in power a long time. And there was a rejection of that in the 2016 election. Do you accept that?
NANCY PELOSI:
Well, we have plenty of room for all kinds of leadership at every level. Right now we need experience, as well as new leadership. And I was a new leader when I emerged myself. I’m all for that. But that’s not the point. The point is who has the leverage? The American people had the impression, some, that Donald Trump was going to give them the leverage when he became president.
And what did he do right from the start is go right to his friends in Wall Street. And this is Super Bowl Sunday. So let’s give a scorecard. Right away he said– his people said they were going to overturn Dodd-Frank, that they were going to do away with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, that they were going to do away with the Fiduciary Rule, all of the things that protect consumers, retail investors, taxpayers.
They showed whose side that they were on. So they’re about trickle-down economics. We’re about trickle-up. We hope that all of us will be talking about a higher minimum wage. And that’s the message we have to get across.
CHUCK TODD:
Is the Democratic Party strategy just obstruct the whole time? Is it to basically take that playbook that the Republicans use that politically, you could argue, was very successful?
NANCY PELOSI:
Well, I think that if we can talk about job creation and infrastructure legislation, that’s a real infrastructure bill and not a tax break for his rich friends, then there’s something we can talk about. If we can talk about work and family balance, about childcare and early childhood education, paid sick leave, let’s see where we can find that.
But I want to make this point, Chuck, and it’s very important. Because people say to me all the time, “How long will it take the Republicans to give up on Trump?” Trump’s agenda is their agenda. They have voted over 60 times to overturn the Affordable Care Act. They vote almost every week in committee or on the floor in this past year to overturn Dodd-Frank and the aspects of it.
So they’re very much in sync. It’s Mitch McConnell and Speaker Ryan are very much in sync with the Trump agenda. So it’s not a question of them saying how much longer will they put up with this? And for him to say “a so-called judge,” it’s one thing to criticize a decision, it’s quite another thing to say, “a so-called judge.”
CHUCK TODD:
I’m going to leave it right there. Nancy Pelosi, the House Democratic leader.
NANCY PELOSI:
So aren’t you happy that President George Bush and Mrs. Bush are going to be the coin toss–
CHUCK TODD:
We are. And that’s, I think, a lot of people are looking forward–
NANCY PELOSI:
It’s a beautiful thing.
CHUCK TODD:
–looking forward to that.
NANCY PELOSI:
A beautiful thing.
CHUCK TODD:
You enjoy the Super Bowl, as well. Your rooting interest or no?
NANCY PELOSI:
My family’s divided, so–
CHUCK TODD:
Fair enough. As the country is these days. All right, Nancy Pelosi–
NANCY PELOSI:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
–thank you for coming in and sharing your views. When we come back, how even the Super Bowl, though, has been politicized, with one big exception.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. I have a Super Bowl Data Download edition for you. And this year even the big game is becoming politicized. Take the ad Budweiser plans to run, which depicts the story of its immigrant founder facing prejudice before achieving success. Democrats and republicans may see that ad differently.
12.6 percent of folks in the top 100 counties who voted for Clinton say they’ve had a Budweiser in the last 30 days. While the same is only true for 6.6 percent of people in the top 100 counties who voted for President Trump. Obviously Budweiser making a consumer decision with that ad. Now you got Lady Gaga , the halftime reporter, she’s a big Hillary Clinton supporter. And who knows what she might say tonight.
But if there is one thing that’s bringing the country together, apparently it’s rooting against the Patriots – the evil empire, right? A recent PPP poll shows fans are pulling for the Falcons at a 2-1 margin, and here’s good news it’s across party lines. Just look at these numbers, 2-1 on each side.
Honestly, for me, I’m already looking ahead to Super Bowl 52, go Pack go.
When we come back, the coming fight over the Supreme Court. Will the Democrats filibuster the Gorsuch nomination, and will Republicans resort to the “nuclear option?”
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Back now with the panel, a lot to get to. I wanna do the Ryan interview and the Pelosi interview. First, on Ryan. This is somebody who’s a, who is in that Trump sceptic category. Was never a “Never Trumper” but was never a Trump lover. He’s now trying to find his way. How much patience does that chunk of the party have for President Trump, Alex?
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
He’s appointed a cabinet that that chunk of the party is very happy with. He’s taking action as far as keeping the country safe, the country’s happy with. He’s proposing tax cuts and deregulation, opening up the economy, which I think is the single biggest challenge that’s going to renew this economy and get it going again. I think Republicans are very happy with the substance of everything Donald Trump is doing. Turning the big thousand-foot ship of state is not like turning a little business speed boat, you know? You rock the passengers, you can’t do it quite as quickly. But I think Republicans, also they see that if the big red wall cracks, if any Republicans start to bail, then the whole thing may collapse.
CHUCK TODD:
But it’s interesting, Republicans are getting more comfortable already hitting him. Marco Rubio and Liz Cheney this morning — Liz Cheney, now a member of Congress, by the way, from Wyoming, obviously daughter of the former vice president — both hitting the president hard over the Putin comments, Andrea.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
This Vladimir Putin comment is just, it doesn’t hold up on substance and not on morality, and it is offensive to Democrats and Republicans, but you’ve got, I mean we haven’t heard yet from McCain and Lindsey Graham I don’t think since we’ve been sitting here.
CHUCK TODD:
Not yet.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But you’re going to hear a lot more about Russia.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
Like many things, if I may, that Donald Trump says, there’s context for it. And that is, this is a president who criticized America for being too expansionist, too many wars. He is less of an interventionist, less into occupations than predecessors.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
But you cannot forgive the murder —
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
It wasn’t well-expressed, it wasn’t well-expressed.
CHUCK TODD:
But Danielle, but let’s talk —
DANIELLE PLETKA:
It was worse than not well-expressed.
CHUCK TODD:
Let’s talk about the style issue, though. Some people, now everybody’s gonna know, you were born in Australia.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
So I’m going to make you our Australian expert here.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Thank you.
CHUCK TODD:
Look, if you make the Australian people mad, there is actually a long-term issue here. If suddenly Australia decides China should be where we should lean as Australians, not the United States.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Okay, first of all, let me sound my most Australian here, and say Australia’s not going to turn to China. Australia and America are allies. And that’s not going to change whether Turnbull is PM or Trump is president. That’s not going to change. We have shared interests. I’m not worried about that. I don’t think anybody would have said to Donald Trump that he is a terrible person if he had said, “Hey, I want to pause on this deal with Australia. I don’t quite understand why Obama made it.” Actually, frankly, I don’t quite understand why Obama made it, either. But the problem was the leaked conversation. The problem was the way that Trump handled it. It wasn’t just that he said that he wasn’t interested in doing this and they were going to send over the Boston bomber. It was also that he said, “Worst conversation of the day.” I mean gratuitous, unnecessary. But that’s not going to affect the long-term relationship.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Not? Really?
DANIELLE PLETKA:
No.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
Because the economic moves towards China are now really becoming very pronounced in Australia.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
I don’t agree.
TAVIS SMILEY:
But what troubles me, Chuck, is that we, too many of us, that is, rushed to normalize a racist, sexist, classist campaign that he ran to win this office. And now we seem to be rushing to normalize a Supreme Court process that trampled on the Constitution just a year ago. But now it’s just — so now we’re into this conversation about how should Democrats handle this. We’re normalizing this too fast. We’re normalizing a Muslim ban. We’re normalizing a religious test. We’re normalizing all the things that we’ve been talking about here today, Alex. And it troubles me, what this ultimately means for the future of this democracy if we continue in this town and beyond to normalize this kind of unrepentant behavior.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
I think we have to put Tavis down as undecided here on some of these issues. Look, I think the criticism of Trump as a racist campaign is way beyond the mark. This is somebody– I mean let’s face it, the country– look at what’s happened in our inner cities. How much better did black America’s lives get for the last eight years? It did not. How much better did our public schools get? They did not. So I would say while there are things Donald Trump should not have said, yes. But look at what has been done to this country–
TAVIS SMILEY:
I don’t want to–
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
— that’s a reaction. I think that’s a different kind of prejudice.
TAVIS SMILEY:
I don’t want to re-litigate the campaign, number one. I don’t want to take–
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
Now you don’t. But I do.
TAVIS SMILEY:
But I don’t want to take Chuck too far off-field. What I do want to say is that racism, sexism, classism, by any other definition, Alex, is the contestation of someone’s humanity. And there are a whole lot of Americans who felt that during that campaign and are feeling it right now with the way we’re normalizing this kind of nonsensical behavior.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
And that is a very pressure, Alex, on the Democrats —
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
No, if this had been a Muslim ban, he would have banned Saudi Arabia. He would have banned Indonesia. But he did not. These are unstable governments that we can’t work with, and we don’t know who’s coming from these places.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let me pause this very quickly, sneak in a commercial break. And we’re going to come back and continue the conversation. Endgame, we are trying to get at the endgame of our conversation. But we may go an extra hour. But you won’t. We’ll be right back.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Back now with endgame, and in some ways the conversation that Tavis and Alex, you guys were having leads me to the next issue which is, “How do the Democrats act as an opposition party, Tavis?” Is it all, I mean, the energy is not in Washington. The energy is not with Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. That’s not personal to them but, you know, they have been around a while.
TAVIS SMILEY:
You asked Leader Pelosi a powerful question, great conversation by the way, when you asked her whether or not the Democratic strategy ought to be obstructionism, and what I was thinking was there is a distinct difference between obstructionism and living and governing by a set of immutable principles. So I don’t see the Democratic strategy being one merely of obstructionism, and that is what we got from the Republicans on the Supreme Court nomination of Merrick Garland, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But there ought to be some principles on which you stand. Those principles, I think, were being played out in the streets by these Saturday protesters that you referenced earlier.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
The problem that they have is that they cannot defeat, they don’t have the numbers, to defeat all of these nominees. So, they are trying to pick and choose those where they can pick up some support among Republicans. And they have to face the problem about the Supreme Court nomination. If they, if they go and filibuster, there is no question in my mind that Mitch McConnell will go nuclear–
TAVIS SMILEY:
Force it. Force it on them. They ought to force it–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
They have to figure this out. But the passion over Merrick Garland, and the way he was treated, the humiliation of never even giving him a meeting, no less a hearing, among these Republicans is not to be underestimated.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
But–
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
But, let’s remember where all of this–
CHUCK TODD:
Go ahead, Danielle.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
Go ahead, Danielle.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Look, first of all, live by the sword, die by the sword.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
That’s what I’m saying.
DANIELLE PLETKA:
That’s number one. But it goes on both sides. And by the way, you think they’re picking their battles? The Democratic leader in the Senate voted against the wife of the Republican leader, okay? Elaine Chao. What was that? Was that–
CHUCK TODD:
By the way, that’s the first time–
DANIELLE PLETKA:
–picking and choosing your battles?
CHUCK TODD:
By the way, you bring this up, was the first time in the history of this country that a Transportation Secretary got opposition votes. I mean that shows you where we are–
DANIELLE PLETKA:
–gratuitous.
CHUCK TODD:
–a little bit.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
I’ve–
DANIELLE PLETKA:
That’s the problem, is that–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
I’m saying that there is–
DANIELLE PLETKA:
–as long as there’s no–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
There is enormous pressure. I’m not going to underplay this. There were thousands of people outside Chuck Schumer’s house in Brooklyn the other night.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
And I–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
They are saying–
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
It is a dangerous thing for the–
DANIELLE PLETKA:
Right.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
–Democratic Party.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
We are in a very dangerous place as a country when they can’t pick and choose.
CHUCK TODD:
Is it dangerous? The Tea Party– you could argue that what you–
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
Yeah.
CHUCK TODD:
–President Trump, Tea Party–
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
Hugely–
CHUCK TODD:
–straight line, right, Alex?
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
–dangerous. I was there for a lot of their–
CHUCK TODD:
You call it dangerous?
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
Very danger– on this I agree with Tavis that you need to be for something. There’s a new party of “no” in town, and it’s the Democratic Party. I’ve been there, and I’ve seen where that leads. It shrinks you, it reduces your support. You lose the ability to inspire, unless– and what is the problem? There’s an old generation of Democratic leadership in this country that is hanging on by its fingernails. And if they cede the way, what comes next is a very left-leaning Democratic Party of Elizabeth Warren–
TAVIS SMILEY:
Fine.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
–and Bernie Sanders that will get–
DANIELLE PLETKA:
That will never win.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
–even smaller.
TAVIS SMILEY:
I find, Andrea, to your point–
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
And it will never win.
CHUCK TODD:
A lot of people thought Tea Partiers would never win.
TAVIS SMILEY:
I find myself quoting my grandfather all the time. There are some fights that ain’t worth fighting, even if you win. But there are other fights you have to fight, even if you lose.
ANDREA MITCHELL:
I take your point, Tavis.
TAVIS SMILEY:
And they have to fight these fights.
ALEX CASTELLANOS:
And lose.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. There’s the last words. Of sort, there it is–
ANDREA MITCHELL:
To be continued.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay, that’s all for this Super Bowl Sunday. If I don’t end this show, they’ll never stop talking, right? By the way, pitchers and catchers report in about ten days. And you know what? The Wizards are pretty good, Washington. So if no football, go check out some of the Wizards’ action. We’ll be back next week. If it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
You can see more Endgame in Post Game on the MTP Facebook page.
* * *END OF TRANSCRIPT* * *
