A FULL-HOUR LOOK BACK AT THE PRESIDENT-ELECT’S 50+ APPEARANCES ON NBC NEWS AND “MEET THE PRESS”
On a special edition of Meet the Press airing this Sunday, Dec. 27, moderator Chuck Todd takes a look back at President-elect Joe Biden’s more than 50 interviews on NBC News and Meet the Press throughout the years, examining his foreign and domestic policy stances and governing philosophies.
With just 24 days until Biden is sworn in as the 46th President of the United States, the special edition broadcast showcases his 50 appearances on Meet the Press, as well as other interviews, debates and town halls on NBC News, dating back to 1980 through his most recent sit-down with Lester Holt on NBC Nightly News after clinching the presidency.
“Joe Biden has been preparing to be president for most of his adult life. He was 29 years old when he was first elected in 1972 to the U.S. Senate in Delaware. And he has run for president in 1988, in 2008 and, of course, again this year,” Todd says during the broadcast. “He beat the Democrats by running to their right, and then he beat President Trump by running to his left, winning more than 81 million votes, by far the most ever by any candidate for president. So what kind of president will this most prepared president make?”
NBC News Political Analyst and former Sen. Claire McCaskill (D-Mo.), former Sen. John Sununu (R-N.H.) and Kristen Welker, NBC News White House Correspondent and Co-Anchor of “Weekend TODAY” will join the broadcast.
Plus, more than 50 days since Biden was declared the president-elect, President Trump still has yet to concede. The special edition looks back at past presidential concession speeches, the purpose they serve and the impact they have on the legacy of those on the losing side of an election.
Tune in to Meet the Press this Sunday.
Full transcripts below. Official full show transcript and videos will be available on Sunday.
PLEASE CREDIT: NBC NEWS’ MEET THE PRESS WITH CHUCK TODD
CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday, what kind of president will Joe Biden be?
JOE BIDEN:
Faith in our institutions held, the integrity of our elections remains intact.
CHUCK TODD:
We take a look at what Joe Biden has said through the years and on the campaign trail. On foreign policy —
JOE BIDEN:
Someone said to me in another interview, “Do you want to own Afghanistan?” I said, “No, but we’ve got to rent it for a little while here.”
CHUCK TODD:
— domestic policy.
JOE BIDEN:
We’ve always moved forward as a nation when the middle class grows. When they grow, the poor have access and the wealthy get wealthier.
CHUCK TODD:
— and on governing a divided America.
JOE BIDEN:
When we beat Donald Trump, you’re going to see a great impediment taken out of the way.
CHUCK TODD:
Our look back and ahead at the man who’s been running for decades.
JOE BIDEN:
I announce my candidacy for president of the United States of America.
TIM RUSSERT:
Are you running for president?
JOE BIDEN:
I am running for president.
DAVID GREGORY:
You don’t want to become president? You won’t run–
JOE BIDEN:
I didn’t say that.
CHUCK TODD:
Also saying goodbye.
JUSTICE RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
People ask me sometimes, “When do you think it will be enough? When will, will there be enough women on the Court?” And my answer is, “When there are nine.”
CHUCK TODD:
Our annual tribute to those we lost. Finally, an American tradition.
GOV. MICHAEL DUKAKIS:
He will be our president, and we’ll work with him.
SEN. JOHN McCAIN:
Whatever our differences, we’re fellow Americans.
CHUCK TODD:
The concession — the one speech we did not get to hear from President Trump this year. Welcome to Sunday and a special edition of Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest running show in television history. This is a special edition of Meet the Press, with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning and I hope you are all enjoying a safe and happy and healthy holiday break. Joe Biden has been preparing to be president for most of his adult life. He was 29 years old when he was first elected in 1972 to the U.S. Senate in Delaware. And he has run for president in 1988, in 2008 and, of course, again this year. At the beginning of the campaign, Biden was largely dismissed as the past his prime, centrist Democrat, flailing in an increasingly progressive party. Biden finished fourth in Iowa, and an even more embarrassing fifth in New Hampshire. But roughly three weeks later, he lapped the field in South Carolina, and then all but swept the Super Tuesday contests en route to the nomination. He beat the Democrats by running to their right, and then he beat President Trump by running to his left, winning more than 81 million votes, by far the most ever by any candidate for president. So what kind of president will this most prepared president make? We brought together NBC News White House correspondent Kristen Welker and former Republican Senator John Sununu of New Hampshire and former Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill of Missouri, both of whom have served with Biden. We’re going to look back at many of the 50 times that Joe Biden has been on Meet the Press and on other NBC News broadcasts over the years, including 2020. We’ll hear his thoughts on domestic policy, foreign policy and we’re going to begin with what he said about governing a divided nation, including a Meet the Press appearance not long after George W. Bush won a controversial 2000 election.
[BEGIN TAPE]
TIM RUSSERT:
The vote was certified. George W. Bush will be the 43rd president. Senator Biden, let me start with you. House Democrats protesting the vote in Florida. And if they had gotten a senator to join in their protests, they could’ve had a challenge, if you will, to the Electoral College vote. Why wouldn’t any Democratic senator join with those Democratic congresspeople?
JOE BIDEN:
Tell you the truth, I wasn’t asked. Number two, if they had, I wouldn’t have signed it. The election’s over. It’s time to move on. But I think it reflects a reality, a reality that George Bush has to deal with.
The president signaled from even before the election began that he thought that, he implied that it wasn’t going to be fair — you know, his absentee ballot things, his mail-in ballots, the things with the post office. But I was confident the American people would speak. I must tell you, I wasn’t confident the president would accept the voice that they, that they sounded.
TIM RUSSERT:
Your other hat, chairman of the Judiciary Committee. Have you found one of the new women senators to serve on your committee?
JOE BIDEN:
I have found one for certain and I intend on having two on the committee. Come hell or high water, there will be women on that committee.
TIM RUSSERT:
How about the idea of appointing the first Hispanic in history to the first —
JOE BIDEN:
I think that’s a great idea, but it should not be a limiting idea. If he has someone that he likes, he’s someone he thinks will foot the bill, I would — and all other things being equal, pick the Hispanic because we should look like America in the court. But do not suggest that you should only pick a woman, a Black, Hispanic, or whatever.
I hear so often people saying, “You know, the president won. He should get his picks.” Well, if that were the case, there wouldn’t be a thing called advice and consent in the Constitution. There are several circumstances in which the president should not get his pick. One, obviously, is if he picked someone to — for a job who says they want to do away with the job. I’m not going to vote for anybody who says, “I want to be head of a department. My purpose is to get rid of the department.” Number two, if you have someone for the job who communicates to the public at large that they are not likely to, in an even handed way, apply the law, whatever it happens to be, whatever department, then that’s a reason not to be for him.
I don’t speak to interest groups anymore. Ever since the Bork hearing, which is referenced, where I sat down, met with the civil rights groups, told them how I was going to run the hearing, they walked out, held a press conference, went in and said, “We told Joe Biden how to run the hearing,” which ruined my reputation at that point, I don’t meet with them anymore. I don’t give a damn about those groups.
It is important that my administration, I promise you, will look like America, both as, from vice president, to the Supreme Court, to Cabinet positions, to every major position in the White House. It’s going to look like America.
There’s not a single decision made he hasn’t asked me my view. Whether I am the absolute last person, I can’t guarantee that. But I know that I am one of the last people that gets an opportunity to make the case to him. And when he has a tough decision and if we’re — if he’s abroad and I’m here or vice versa, he picks up the phones and he calls.
I think the American people are sick of the president’s self-indulgent acts, sexual acts. They’re also sick of our self-indulgent acts here in Washington of liking this process so much, we’re keeping it going.
There’s nothing you can do in history. This guy is condemned in history for the acts he committed. Everyone knows what they were. They’re there, they’ll be in the history books.
CHUCK TODD:
Watching President Trump over the last couple of weeks, what lessons do you think he has learned from impeachment?
JOE BIDEN:
That, in fact, he’s been released of any shackles that were on him called the Constitution. I’ve never seen anyone, and I’ve been chairman of the Judiciary Committee for years and years, no one, no one — including Richard Nixon, I was there at the end of his term — no one has weaponized, I mean, weaponized the Department of Justice.
LESTER HOLT:
Some Democrats want investigations to go forward against President Trump after he leaves office. Do you support that?
JOE BIDEN:
I will not do what this president does and use the Justice Department as my vehicle to insist that something happen. There are a number of investigations that I’ve read about that are at a state level. There’s nothing at all I can or cannot do about that.
When I got here and a lot of old segregationists were still here. Yet, we did not engage in arguments about motive. We engaged in arguments about policy. And all of a sudden, in the mid-’90s, it became, “If you’re not with us, you’re not a good Christian. If you’re not with us, you’re not moral. If you share a view, you are unpatriotic.” The whole nature of the debate changed. You had senators talking about the president of the United States on the floor calling him “Bubba.” And we wonder why that doesn’t percolate through the entire society.
There’s not a single Democrat or Republican who’s ever worked with me that will not look you in the eye and say, “Biden has never, ever, ever broken his word.” So that’s why I’m able to go up there. I don’t always succeed. But I like these guys. They’re my friends. I’ve got a lot of these Republicans are my friend.
DAVID GREGORY:
Do you think that there is a modern, right-wing conspiracy that has aligned against this president?
JOE BIDEN:
No, I don’t think there’s a modern right — I think the Republican Party’s been taken over by the Tea Party. It happens. Those things happen. My party was taken over by the far left when I got elected in 1972. We need a strong Republican Party, a party that where two or three or four people when they’re not in office or if they have a president when he’s in office, can speak for the party. Can make agreements. That’s what we need.
When we beat Donald Trump, you’re going to see a great impediment taken out of the way.
We need to heal the red and the blue here, man. The red states and the blue states.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to begin with the hits on your family, the attacks from the president, from members of Congress, the fact that that’s what we spent three months publicly having to deal with this — how has that impacted you?
JOE BIDEN:
Well, you know, first of all, it initially made me angry. But I realized that whomever was likely to be, whoever he most feared was going to be the victim of his affection. No matter who it is, they’re going to go after. And secondly, what I determined was, and I know this sounds — I don’t know what it sounds, I’ll just say it, you know, a president can’t just fight. A president has to be able to forgive. I’ve got to focus on the future. I’ve got to focus on how do we, how do we end this era of, I mean, how do we literally, I wrote about it, restore the soul of this country? I mean, it’s just being eaten out. It’s being eaten away. The cruelty, the viciousness, the way he pits people against one another. The way he goes after people of color.
My entire career, I’ve been able to bring Democrats and Republicans together. And now people say, “Well, that was the old days, Joe. Things have changed.” Well, the only thing that’s changed is the way in which the politics that have been moved by some in the party have just gotten really ugly.
LESTER HOLT:
Give me a line from your inauguration speech. What do you tell the American people? What do you tell those people on the far right, the people on the far left?
JOE BIDEN:
I don’t tell them very much. I tell the 80% of the people in the middle that, in fact, we have to pull the country together. And we can.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Kristen Welker, Clare McCaskill and John Sununu, welcome to all three of you. And just so you know, we’re going to have three chances to talk here. And so, I want to focus this part of our conversation on sort of Joe Biden’s governing style. Kristen Welker, here’s what Barack Obama wrote about meeting with Congressional leaders, in his recent memoir, “I became accustomed to the ritualistic quality of our joint meetings. The four of them would take care not to show their cards or make firm commitments, their comments often sprinkled with thinly veiled recrimination directed at their counterparts, all of them unified only in common desire to be somewhere else.” Now, he is writing that of those four people at that time. One can’t help but wonder, Kristen, if President Obama himself didn’t enjoy those meetings. That is the exact opposite tact of Joe Biden.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I think that’s a great point, Chuck. It is the exact opposite of Joe Biden, who enjoys those meetings, and he enjoys reaching across the aisle. He’s talked about the good working relationship that he has with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. That, of course, is going to be critical. Mitch McConnell, Joe Biden have now acknowledged that they have spoken and that they are going to move forward and try to get things done. That’s going to be a real challenge. And Biden knows that his first and biggest challenge is going to be unity. So, I think you’re going to see him try to focus on trying to get some legislation passed that will have bipartisan support, like a stimulus bill, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
You know, Claire McCaskill, going back to our recent presidents, there’s not been one in my lifetime that actually likes Congress. They love — every one of them complained about it. You have to go back to LBJ, who seemed to love working with Congress, right? Knew how to — loved the Senate. Biden is more like an LBJ in his love for the Senate. Can he use that to actually get things done?
CLAIRE McCASKILL:
Well, he knows how it works. And he enjoys the personal relationships, and keep in mind, Chuck, there are going to be three Democratic senators from states that Trump won handily. And there’s going to be somewhere between three and five Republican senators from states that Biden won handily. That group of senators is going to be where Joe Biden has his opportunity to put together a 51 margin that could go around Mitch McConnell, if he is leader, in terms of getting things to the floor and actually getting a bipartisan deal done. That’s what he’ll be focused on.
CHUCK TODD:
John Sununu, we’ve seen it already. Washington’s favorite new odd couple is going to be Joe and Mitch. You could see these headlines here. It is going to be the most important relationship in Washington. It was interesting — here’s what McConnell put in his book about why he preferred working with Biden over Obama. And he wrote this, “The reason we could get a deal done — and that I could work with Joe — was that we could talk to each other. I could tell him how far we could go, and he would reciprocate. Unlike Obama, Joe made no effort to convince me that I was wrong, or that I held an incorrect view of the world. He just simply took my politics as a given, and I did the same.” I’ve heard this critique before from some senators, even Democratic ones, regarding President Obama, regarding President Bush. Senators want to be taken at face value, do they not?
JOHN SUNUNU:
Well, if they’re going to be effective, their word does have to mean something. And you’ve seen, in your personal experience, how much it means to Joe Biden. You know, love him or hate him, he’s committed to that. It’s not enough just to know the Senate, but he’s actually chaired important hearings. He’s negotiated important deals. I mean, he really has participated in the process and done so effectively because of the characteristics you describe. And you cannot overemphasize the importance of this relationship between McConnell and the president-elect. Because the only way anything will get done is if the president-elect, then — President Joe Biden negotiates with Mitch McConnell, comes to an agreement, that agreement moves through the Senate and then it’s accepted by the House. Fifty-one votes means nothing in the Senate, to disagree a little bit with Claire. It will take an agreement with Mitch McConnell, a majority of Republican and majority of Democrat votes, more than 60 votes to beat any potential filibuster. That’s the agreement that has a chance of getting signed into law. Nothing else.
CHUCK TODD:
Kristen Welker, what do the incoming Biden administration, how do they view — obviously, the Georgia runoffs, you know, could change the trajectory. But are they assuming that, no matter what, McConnell’s going to be a hurdle, so they’ve got to figure out how to work with him?
KRISTEN WELKER:
They are, Chuck. I think that’s absolutely right no matter what happens in Georgia. Obviously, Biden’s been campaigning in Georgia. He’d like to win those two Senate seats there. But he is banking on the fact that that might not happen. And so, how is he going to move forward with his agenda? How’s he going to get it passed? Look, there’s going to be pressure on McConnell too. This is obviously a country that needs economic relief. And so, that could be a pressure point for McConnell. Their relationship though, Chuck, does go back, as we’ve been discussing. McConnell talking about the fact that he trusts Joe Biden. But the question is, how do you move beyond the areas of bipartisanship? Okay, if they can get a stimulus deal done, how do they get infrastructure done? Is that a potential other opportunity? I think that Biden is going to be looking for those openings, particularly in the first 100 days that he is in office, Chuck, to try to set the tone. Because remember, he’s got to also answer to his progressive base, as well. And there could complications with legislation there.
CHUCK TODD:
I was just going to say, Claire, what is going — you know, he got criticism for giving McConnell too much back when you were in the Senate during one of the deals that he cut. How does he strike that balance without getting progressives coming after him?
CLAIRE McCASKILL:
Well, first of all, progressives are going to want to get something done. They’re going to want to get something done on infrastructure. They’re going to want to get something done on a stimulus, a serious economic package moving forward, past the pandemic. And the reason I talked about 51 votes is just look what happened on this last Covid aid. A group of bipartisan senators got together, and McConnell got worried that there were 51 of them, it could force a vote on the floor around him, and then he finally moved. I’m talking about 51 senators as leverage to force McConnell to allow something to get on the calendar and get on the floor for an actual debate and vote.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Well, I’m going to pause the conversation there. Don’t worry, John. You’ll get a chance to respond, as well. But we’re going to also take a look at what Joe Biden has said over the years about domestic policy, starting most importantly, with health care.
[BEGIN TAPE]
DAVID GREGORY:
Will the president sign a bill that does not include a public plan as an alternative to private insurance?
JOE BIDEN:
Again, we’ve made it clear that we think there should be a public plan. So the question is, what is the public plan? Is the public plan just Medicare? Is that the public plan? Do you add everybody onto Medicare who is going to need help? Or, is the public plan something further down to continuum?
This idea that I’m not the progressive in the race, I mean, my Lord, if I get elected president of the United States with my position on health care, my position on global warming, my position on foreign policy, my position on the middle class, this’ll go down as one of the most progressive administrations in American history. But what you’re up against are things that are almost fanciful. Like, you know, Medicare for All. Part of being president is not just the idea you have, can you get it done? Have you ever done anything big? Have you ever been able to put together coalitions?
The American public is really strong and tough. The first thing we should do is listen to the scientists. Secondly, we should tell them the truth, the unvarnished truth. The American people have never shied away from being able to deal with the truth. The worst thing you can do is raise false expectations and then watch them get dashed. Then they begin to lose confidence in their leadership. So, we should just tell the truth as best we know it, as best the scientists know it. We should let them speak. And we should be doing all in our power right now to deal with being able to confine the spread of this disease. For example, we need significantly more testing kits across America.
The attorney general and I sat down and actually wrote the crime bill. I mean, we got them to sign on line by line. And I think, quite frankly, there were a lot of meetings in the White House, in the Oval Office in November with me and Senator Mitchell and others indicating to the president that, unless he got personally involved in, it was not likely to move through the House because we passed this crime bill, the so-called underlined Biden Crime Bill. We passed this way back last year, And we still don’t have a bill to his desk.
The parts that the president put in place are working. He put 100,000 cops, started to put those in the streets, the prisons. He’s done that. He’s — the interdiction program. All of the parts that deal with adult populations are working.
The vast, vast, vast majority of police are honorable, decent men and women who risk their lives every single day when they put on that badge and walk out that door. They have a right to come home safely. But there’s bad apples in every profession. There are lousy commentators, there are lousy presidents, there’s lousy senators, docs. And they should be — in fact, I don’t know any police department around that isn’t happy to get rid of a lousy cop because it just reflects on them. And by the way, the same with the protesters. It’s a right to protest peacefully. But once you pick up a bat and start smashing windows, once in fact you light something on fire, once you engage in violence, you should be arrested and held accountable.
We have to start by addressing the excessive use of force by police, banning chokeholds, overhauling no-knock warrants. That’s why I’m going to set up a national commission where we bring in police and the community to talk about what we have to do.
We have this whole thesis, it seems to me, from the other side that if you concentrate more and more and more wealth and success in the very top, somehow, something positive’s going to happen. We’ve always moved forward as a nation when the middle class grows. When they grow, the poor have access and the wealthy get wealthier.
I am going to make a commitment in the first 100 days. I will send a immigration bill to the United States Senate with a pathway to citizenship for over 11 million undocumented people.
The chairman of the board of General Motors, when I told her my climate plan, said, “I’m all in. I’m in.” As did the IBW and other folks there, because they figured out it’s a way to create jobs. So —
LESTER HOLT:
What’s your message to other businesses who —
JOE BIDEN:
Well, across the board. This is the way we can create significant economic growth for people.
TIM RUSSERT:
When you came to the Senate, you believed that Roe v. Wade was not correctly decided. And that you also believed that a right of abortion was not secured by the Constitution. Why did you change your mind?
JOE BIDEN:
Well, I was 29 years old when I came to the United States Senate, and I have learned a lot. Look, Tim, I’m a practicing Catholic. And it is the biggest dilemma for me in terms of comporting my religious and cultural views with my political responsibility. And the decision that I have come to is Roe v. Wade is as close to we’re going to be able to get as a society that incorporates the general lines of debate within Christendom, Judaism and other faiths where it basically says there is a sliding scale relating to viability in a fetus.
CASSIDY BROWN:
Considering the new Supreme Court nomination of Amy Coney Barrett, what are your particular plans to protect women’s reproductive rights in the U.S.?
JOE BIDEN:
Number one, we don’t know exactly what she will do, although expectation is that she may very well move to overrule Roe. But the only responsible response to that would be to pass legislation making Roe the law of the land.
We already have a law, the Defense of Marriage Act. We’ve all voted, or I voted and others said, “Look, marriage is between a man and a woman and states must respect that.” Nobody’s violated that law. There’s been no challenge to that law. Why do we need a Constitutional amendment?
Who do you love and will you be loyal to the person you love? And that’s what people are finding out, is what all marriages at their root are about, whether they’re marriages of lesbians or gay men or heterosexuals.
DAVID GREGORY:
You’re comfortable with same sex marriage now?
JOE BIDEN:
Look, I am vice president of the United States of America. The president sets the policy. I am absolutely comfortable with the fact that men marrying men, women marrying women and heterosexual men and women marrying are entitled to the same exact rights, all the civil rights, all the civil liberties. And quite frankly, I don’t see much of a distinction beyond that.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Well, let’s bring back our panel. Kristen, I want to start with you. You’re covering the Biden team very closely. I know they won’t say this publicly, but look, you get one shot at doing something big in that first term. And other than Covid being I think priority one, Covid and the vaccinations, what is the one big thing they hope to get done this administration?
KRISTEN WELKER:
I think you have to look at healthcare, Chuck, first. I mean, I think that’s one of the big reasons why he got elected. His promise to build on Obamacare, his promise to lower premiums, and his promise to have a public option that people could buy into. Now, of course, that’s going to be, I think, a big battleground, that area. Progressives are going to want that in any big piece of legislation. And you’re going to have conservatives who are going to fight against that. So I think that that is one of the big things he’s going to be pushing for. If I could just have two, Chuck, I’d say climate change. He has a $2 trillion climate change bill that he wants to get through. It’s big. He has a climate czar in John Kerry. And so I think that’s the other big piece of legislation he’s looking toward.
CHUCK TODD:
You stole my thunder a little bit there. I absolutely — that was basically the second big piece I wanted to go. John Sununu, where are Republicans, in your mind, obligated to work with Biden on the domestic side of things?
JOHN SUNUNU:
Well, I don’t think it’s a question of where they’re obligated. It’s where are the opportunities? You know, and the opportunities are on executing and completing the work that needs to be done on the pandemic. Infrastructure was mentioned. Taxes are mentioned because there are tax provisions that are going to expire and result in significant tax increases in the next couple of years if they’re not extended. Those are opportunities and they’re actually quite important economically. Quite frankly, if he decides to spend all of his time on healthcare or try to legislate climate change, they’re going to waste time, they’re going to instill division, and all of that talk about unity is going to go right down the drain because that is simply not the way to do it. The good news is, as your clip showed, Joe Biden has never really been bound by any rigid, ideological principles. You know, one senator’s flip flops are another senator’s evolution. And that can be a strength because that provides real opportunity for the kind of negotiation led by Mitch McConnell through the Senate and enables you to get things that you can send to the House that can get to the president’s desk. The biggest challenge for him is going to be the hard left of his own party because he needs to distance himself from the crazy ideas of “Defund the Police” and “Medicare for All” and the Green New Deal. And if he’s unsuccessful, if the left in the House feels empowered, they can prevent anything from happening because they’re going to have to accept a lot of compromise. And I was, you know, a Republican in the House when we had the majority at a time when we had to suck up a lot of compromise that came our way from the Senate. But it’s the only way to get things done.
CHUCK TODD:
Claire McCaskill, respond to John Sununu there. He said, “Look, if he goes and targets healthcare and climate, it’s going to be a fight and it’s going to be hard.” And I’m sitting there going, “Okay, let’s say Joe Biden’s running for reelection in the convention in Atlanta in 2024,” what is the accomplishment he’s got to have, both on healthcare and climate, to feel good about having a successful domestic agenda?
CLAIRE MCCASKILL:
Well, I think it’s to be determined. But let’s keep in mind one thing, Chuck. That is, we’ve just had a president who has used executive powers beyond all realm of one’s imagination before the days of Donald Trump. And I don’t think that Joe Biden will ever go as far as Donald Trump went with executive power. But Trump has shown that you can do things as radical as taking money from the Pentagon to build a domestic project without Congressional approval. He tried to wipe out all kinds of immigration law just with the stroke of a pen. So that is in Joe Biden’s back pocket. And I know the Republicans will scream, “Executive power abuse,” just like they’re probably going to scream deficit even though they were quiet as a mouse about deficits and executive power over the last four years.
CHUCK TODD:
No, I do think that a lot of people are going to have to change their outrage talking points on different channels. We shall see. Let me pause here. We’re going to do a little foreign policy for the next round here. When we come back, what we might expect from Joe Biden on foreign policy. Stick with us.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. We can expect President-elect Biden to reverse many policies President Trump put in place, which themselves were reversals of Obama-Biden administration policies, as Claire was just noting on executive power. But Mr. Biden has promised to rejoin the Paris Climate Treaty, reestablish the Iran Nuclear Deal, and put an end to coziness with Russia. So let’s take a look at some of what the president-elect has had to say on foreign policy from all the way back in 1980 to this year.
[START TAPE]
TIM RUSSERT:
Ted Kennedy said yesterday voting against the war in Iraq was the best vote he ever cast in his 40 years in the U.S. Senate. Is voting for the war the worst vote you ever cast in your mind?
JOE BIDEN:
I don’t think so. I think misunderstanding this administration is the worst miscalculation I’ve ever made in my career.
I acknowledged it was a mistake to trust that he wasn’t going to go to war.
LESTER HOLT:
Yeah, was that on him, or was that on you?
JOE BIDEN:
Well, I took his word for it. I took his word for it. And I’ve acknowledged for a long, long time, it was a mistake to have given him that authority and that he abused. He wasn’t supposed to do that. So that was my fault for trusting his word.
One lesson out of my generation, and I’m 36, now 37 years old, the so-called Vietnam generation, is that we cannot conduct foreign policy in a belligerent manner without the full, total backing of the domestic population of this country.
TIM RUSSERT:
He’s in Kabul, Afghanistan, has spent the last four days in the war zone.
JOE BIDEN:
Someone said to me in another interview, “Do you want to own Afghanistan?” And I said, “No, but we’ve got to rent it for a little while here.” This government needs at least two years in order to be able to put together an Afghan army.
DAVID GREGORY:
Ten years, Mr. Vice President, can’t you just say straight whether we’re winning or losing? Don’t the American people —
JOE BIDEN:
Well —
DAVID GREGORY:
— deserve to know something about where we really stand?
JOE BIDEN:
The one thing I’ve never been accused of is not being straight. We are making progress. Are we making sufficient progress, fast enough? The answer remains to be seen.
The answer is, that I think, as it goes on week after week, the prospects increase, not diminish, that we will successfully gain the release of the hostages. I think the president is acting precisely the way he should. I think there’s a logical progression and I think it will result in the release of the hostages. But I have no crystal ball. God only knows.
DAVID GREGORY
Is this president going to be the one who allows Iran to go nuclear or is he the president who stopped it?
JOE BIDEN
He’s going to be the president that stopped it, God willing. We are not going to allow Iran to go nuclear any more than the rest of the world is going to allow it to go nuclear.
What we were able to do is bring together the world to see to it that Iran would not be able to get a nuclear weapon, period. We had the most intrusive inspection regime that existed ever in an arms control agreement. International inspectors on the ground, in all the places where they could either reprocess or do anything to move toward a nuclear weapon.
What I’m worried about is that this totally isolated regime with a guy who doesn’t seem to understand anything is going to do something very, very stupid that ends up in a shooting war in the Korean Peninsula, where they have 30,000 pieces of artillery, or 10,000 pieces of artillery that can take out a significant chunk of South Korea. John Kennedy, quoting a muscular Democrat, John Kennedy said, “We should never negotiate out of fear. We should never fear negotiation.” We’re so big and so strong, the idea that we’re not sitting down having a come to an altar call with the leader of North Korea in a private meeting and saying, “Jack, let’s tell you what the deal is here.”
TIM RUSSERT
One on one?
JOE BIDEN
One on one. I called for that three years ago. That’s not borne out of weakness —
TIM RUSSERT
Should the —
JOE BIDEN
I spent more time with the soon-to-be president of China, Vice President Xi. I have never failed, including when he was hosted at the State Department, to say human rights, human rights is critical.
TIM RUSSERT
You think Russian President Putin is trustworthy?
JOE BIDEN
I think, the answer is no, I don’t.
CHUCK TODD
Sort of like in baseball, you throw a high, hard one to send a message. Why haven’t we sent a message yet to Putin?
JOE BIDEN
We’re sending a message. We had the capacity to do it, and the message —
CHUCK TODD
He’ll know it?
JOE BIDEN
— we sent at the time, he’ll know it. And it’ll be at the time of our choosing, and under the circumstances that have the greatest impact.
I’ve taken on the Castros of the world. I’ve taken on the Putins of the world. I’ve taken on all these dictators. I haven’t cozied up to them. I’m the guy that’s been straightforward with them. I’m the guy that let them know it stops here, it stops with me. It stops with me as president.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
We’re going to get our panel’s take on all of that, plus, what the Biden administration’s foreign policy is likely to look like, right after this break.
[START TAPE]
REPORTER
Why is it too early to announce, to decide?
JOE BIDEN
Well, you’re going to have to ask my wife, who’s here in the audience —
TIM RUSSERT
You told Roll Call, the Capitol Hill newspaper, you’re thinking about running for president.
JOE BIDEN
No, I’m not thinking about running. I’m absolutely not —
TIM RUSSERT
You’re not going to run?
TIM RUSSERT
Going to run for president?
JOE BIDEN
I haven’t made that decision. I —
TIM RUSSERT
But you’re thinking about it.
JOE BIDEN
Yeah.
TIM RUSSERT
Which way are you leaning?
JOE BIDEN
If we had to make it today, since my family hasn’t made that decision, I’d make it no.
If I can raise the money, if there’s someone out there besides me who thinks I should be president, then I’m going to run for president. If not, I’m not going to run for president.
DAVID GREGORY
Are you running for president?
JOE BIDEN
I am running for president.
DAVID GREGORY
You don’t want to become president? You won’t run —
JOE BIDEN
I didn’t say that?
CHUCK TODD
Is your goal to be the presumptive front runner?
JOE BIDEN
Yes.
CHUCK TODD
At the end of March?
JOE BIDEN
Yes.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. That, of course, was Joe Biden running and not running, but mostly running, over the course of the last 32 years. Let me bring back the panel. And I do want to first start with foreign policy. I do want to ask everybody’s opinion about how does he handle the second term question, and when does he do it? But Claire McCaskill, how do you — how would you describe what kind of foreign policy you expect Joe Biden to enact? How would you describe it, and is there a model president to compare it to?
CLAIRE MCCASKILL:
Well, he’s inheriting a crisis. This hack that has occurred from Russia that has infiltrated a number of federal agencies, and even indications into some of our most secure systems, as it relates to nuclear power. He’s got a crisis on his hands, and it will be an opportunity for him to send a strong signal to Russia, either on front street or behind the curtain, where they can feel the impact of a new sheriff in town when it comes to Putin and Russia. He will no longer coddle bad guys. And he will immediately try to strengthen our alliances around the world. Those democracies that believe in the same values we believe in, and — because that’s really the national security of our country, is how strong that alliance is. And it’s been frayed over Trump’s irresponsibility over the last four years. That’s what he’ll get to right away, and I think that will be the cornerstone of his foreign policy.
CHUCK TODD:
John Sununu, I expect that there is a lot of opportunity here for bipartisan work by Joe Biden, at least when it comes to China, Russia, alliance building, NATO, things like that. I separate out Iran from that. Is that a fair way to describe it?
JOHN SUNUNU:
Yeah, I think that’s fair. Look, what’s the model? I think the model is George H.W. Bush. I think he wants to have a foreign policy ideally that’s tough but engaged, tough but consistent. And honestly, consistency has been a shortcoming of the Trump administration. I do think he has some really strong frameworks to work from. You know, setting aside Trump the personality, I think the framework he has in China, a strong tariff regime, strong enforcement regime, a China that knows we’re serious about enforcement of intellectual property and other issues, and we’re willing to engage on human rights, that’s a good starting point for this administration. A free trade agreement with Mexico that’s been renegotiated includes labor and environmental provisions for the first time, has better enforcement mechanisms than the original NAFTA, that’s really a good framework for this administration to build on. You know, in Russia you suggested oh, it’s been too cozy with Russia. But the facts are that we have sanctions on the Nord Stream gas project coming out of Russia, that we’ve pushed back on Russia’s alliance with Assad in Syria, constantly. We sold armaments to Ukraine to defend themselves, armaments that the Obama-Biden administration wouldn’t sell to Ukraine. So, you know, I think, again, even with Russia, there’s a strong push back and a strong framework, and even sanctions that are in place that they can build on. So you’re right, the Iran Nuclear Agreement, I think many people, and certainly many Republicans, but many other people who aren’t Republicans think it was a failure. Iran continued to develop its program. The only thing that’s held it back has been some incredible espionage and some daring effort on the part of Israelis and others to hold back that program. So I think there’s too many other opportunities to get bogged down in taking sanctions off Iran suddenly, and trying to reestablish or renegotiate that agreement.
CHUCK TODD:
Kristen Welker, how much political capital do you think Biden’s going to be willing to expend on Iran?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Oh, I think he sees Iran as one of the top threats. And so he is going to be willing to spend quite a bit. And I do think that it is an area where he can find bipartisan agreement. And he’s made it very clear that he wants to reenter the Iran Nuclear Deal. And the question is going to be what are the details? How does he do it? When you think more broadly about his foreign policy and that relationship building, really reversing the America First foreign policy, I think, look, that’s going to be a challenge. He knows that he’s going to have to rebuild some of those bridges that have been broken. And when you think about Russia, for example, what Claire McCaskill was just saying I think is absolutely right. I think that what will be different from the start is going to be the tone. Yes, there have been tough sanctions against Russia. But I am told, in speaking to transition officials, that the tone is going to be very different from the top, from the start. And they think that’s going to make a difference.
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
JOHN SUNUNU:
It’s impossible for the tone not to be different —
CHUCK TODD:
Claire McCaskill —
JOHN SUNUNU:
— and that’s a good thing. But that’s —
CHUCK TODD:
–on the issue of running for reelection. No, I hear you. On the issue of the reelection, how does Joe Biden avoid the constant, “Well, will he or won’t he?” And also avoid being a lame duck?
CLAIRE MCCASKILL:
He’ll probably avoid doing a lot of shows where people will be focused on that. I think he’s going to really just refuse to even go there. I don’t think it would be very smart for him to even discuss it. He’s got two years of work ahead of him where he’s got to get some stuff done. There’s plenty of time for that later. By the way, Chuck, the American people, this year of all years, are really sick of politics.
CHUCK TODD:
Oh yes. That I get. I won’t be asking the question for two years, that I promise you. Thanks to all of you. I hope you have a happy and healthy new year to my panel. When we come back, some of those we lost in 2020.
[START TAPE]
JOHN LEWIS
You must find a way to get in the way. You must find a way to get in trouble, good trouble, necessary trouble.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. As we do every year, we want to take a moment to look back at some of the iconic people in politics, culture, and media, whom we lost in the past 12 months.
[BEGIN TAPE]
JUSTICE RUTH BADER GINSBURG:
People ask me sometimes, “When do you think it will be enough? When will there be enough women on the Court?” And my answer is when there are nine.
SEN. TOM COBURN:
We do not have one problem we can’t solve. There’s nothing too big for us. They’re all solvable.
KATHERINE JOHNSON:
I liked what I was doing. I liked work. I liked the stars, and the stories we were telling. And it was a joy.
JIM LEHRER:
I’m Jim Lehrer of the PBS NewsHour, and I welcome you to the first of the 2012 presidential debates.
CHADWICK BOSEMAN:
Sometimes you need to get knocked down before you can really figure out what your fight is. Wakanda forever.
HERMAN CAIN:
I’m running for president of the United States. And I’m not running for second.
JOHNNY GILBERT:
Here is the host of Jeopardy, Alex Trebek.
JOHN LEWIS:
We do not want our freedom gradually, but we want to be free now. You must find a way to get in the way. You must find a way to get in trouble, good trouble, necessary trouble.
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. When we look back on the Trump residency, one of the things we see, for better or for worse, is a trail of shattered norms. Among them, the president’s refusal to even make a concession speech. It’s a shame, because concession speeches can begin to heal our wounds and remind everyone that what unites us is greater than what divides us.
[BEGIN TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
Concession speeches have become a staple of American democracy, dating back to 1896 when William Jennings Bryan sent the first known concession telegram to William McKinley. Over the years they have morphed from private, polite courtesies, to public displays of peaceful transition of power. The first televised presidential concession speech was in 1952.
GOV. ADLAI STEVENSON:
It is traditionally American to fight hard before an election. It is equally traditional to close ranks as soon as the people have spoken.
CHUCK TODD:
Since then, every losing major party nominee has delivered some sort of televised remarks.
WALTER MONDALE:
We didn’t win, but we made history. And that fight has just begun.
PRES. GEORGE H.W. BUSH:
America must always come first. So we will get behind this new president and wish him, wish him well.
MITT ROMNEY:
I so wish that I had been able to fulfill your hopes to lead the country in a different direction. But the nation chose another leader.
CHUCK TODD:
Some have done it early on election night, before some polls even closed.
PRES. JIMMY CARTER:
I promised you four years ago that I would never lie to you. So I can’t stand here tonight and say it doesn’t hurt.
CHUCK TODD:
In close races, they happened the day after election day.
SEN. JOHN KERRY:
I would not give up this fight if there was a chance that we would prevail.
HILLARY CLINTON:
This loss hurts. But please, never stop believing that fighting for what’s right is worth it.
CHUCK TODD:
Or even over a month later, after the 2000 Florida recount.
VICE PRES. AL GORE:
Let there be no doubt, while I strongly disagree with the Court’s decision, I accept it.
CHUCK TODD:
The speeches usually preach unity.
VICE PRES. HUBERT H. HUMPHREY:
We’ve got a president-elect. He’s going to have my help.
GOV. MICHAEL DUKAKIS :
He will be our president. And we’ll work with him.
SEN. JOHN McCAIN:
Whatever our differences, we are fellow Americans. And please believe me when I say no association has ever meant more to me than that.
CHUCK TODD:
With occasional comedy.
BOB DOLE:
Tomorrow will be the first time in my life I don’t have anything to do.
CHUCK TODD:
Gerald Ford, suffering from laryngitis, had his wife give most of the speech on his behalf.
BETTY FORD:
The president asked me to tell you that he telephoned President-elect Carter a short time ago and congratulated him on his victory.
CHUCK TODD:
The speeches are not limited to general elections.
SEN. TED KENNEDY:
The work goes on. The cause endures. The hope still lives. And the dream shall never die.
CHUCK TODD:
And can even be used to set up a losing candidate’s political future.
REP. BETO O’ROURKE:
I’m as inspired, I’m as hopeful as I have ever been in my life.
CHUCK TODD:
Or to attack one’s perceived enemies.
RICHARD NIXON:
You don’t have Nixon to kick around anymore.
CHUCK TODD:
Although not required by any law, the speeches represent the end of a campaign.
SEN. GEORGE MCGOVERN:
We now bring it to an end tonight.
CHUCK TODD:
And often, a career.
VICE PRES. AL GORE:
As for what I’ll do next, I don’t know the answer to that one yet.
PRES. GEORGE H.W. BUSH:
I plan to get very active in the grandchild business.
PRES. JIMMY CARTER:
I have been blessed, as only a few people ever have, to help shape the destiny of this nation.
[END TAPE]
CHUCK TODD:
It’s not yet January 20th, so President Trump still has time. That’s all for today, thanks for watching. We’ll be back next week. Next year, actually. Because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
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