Sunday Exclusive: Sen. Sanders on data breach: “We didn’t go out and take it”
Sunday Exclusive: Sen. Sanders reveals he would only raise tax on middle-class for paid family and medical leave
Donald Trump on former State Sec. Hillary Clinton: “Hundreds of thousands of people have been killed because of her faulty decisions”
DEC. 20, 2015 — When asked if he would change his language if evidence surfaces of it being used in ISIS recruitment videos, Republican presidential frontrunner Donald Trump told “Meet the Press” moderator Chuck Todd: “No, because I think that my words represent toughness and strength.”
The assertion that ISIS is using Trump in its recruitment videos was made by former Sec. Hillary Clinton in last night’s Democratic debate. On Clinton and her time at the State Department, Trump remarked, “she didn’t do the job because the entire world blew up around her” and that “hundreds of thousands of people have been killed because of her faulty decisions.” Watch the full interview here: http://nbcnews.to/1PjhVwx.
This morning, Clinton Campaign Chairman John Podesta exclusively told Todd that Clinton stands by her claim, which has not been confirmed by fact-checkers. Watch the full interview here: http://nbcnews.to/1YufO9E.
Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) also joined the show, addressing news this week of the campaign data breach: “As a result of a breach caused by the DNC vendor, not by us, information came into our campaign about the Clinton campaign,” said Sanders.“We didn’t go out and take it.” Watch the full interview here: http://nbcnews.to/1OEwk1E.
He revealed the only tax raise he would implement on the middle-class as president: “The United States should join the rest of the world through paid family and medical leave. It will cost us $1.61 a week and an increase in payroll tax.”
In an exclusive interview on Capitol Hill, House Speaker Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) told Todd, “We fought for as much as we could get” on the budget deal reached this week. “The point I would say is this is a process I inherited. I fully own that. But it’s also a process that will help us get to what we call regular order next year, where we don’t wind up with the same kind of situation next year.” Watch the full interview here: http://nbcnews.to/1J0ZsDv.
José Díaz-Balart of NBC News and MSNBC; presidential American biographer Doris Kearns Goodwin; The New York Times’ Maggie Haberman; and radio talk show host Hugh Hewitt also joined the show to provide insight and analysis.
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Trump on Hillary Clinton: “She’s Got No Stamina”
WATCH: http://nbcnews.to/1Mptj3n
CHUCK TODD:
I want to play one particular quote that Hillary Clinton said last night and get you to respond to it. Here it is.
(BEGIN TAPE)
SEC. HILLARY CLINTON:
He is becoming ISIS’ best recruiter. They are going to people, showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Now I know what you’re about to say. No fact-checker has been able to back up her claim on that.
DONALD TRUMP:
That’s exactly correct. I was going to say that, exactly correct. Right, nobody has been able to back that up. It’s nonsense. It’s just another Hillary lie. She lies like crazy about everything, whether it’s trips where she was being gunned down in a helicopter or an airplane, she’s a liar and everybody knows that. But she just made this up in thin air.
CHUCK TODD:
But let me ask you this: If you knew your words were being used in recruitments videos, because I’ve had plenty of intelligence officials worry about this, and you’re right, there’s no evidence yet, but if you knew your words were being used would you change your language?
DONALD TRUMP:
No, because I think that my words represent toughness and strength. Hillary’s not strong, Hillary’s weak, frankly. She’s got no stamina, she’s got nothing, she doesn’t–
CHUCK TODD:
Let me stop you there.
DONALD TRUMP:
She couldn’t even get back on the stage. Nobody knows what happened to her, it’s like she went home and went to sleep–
CHUCK TODD:
Why do you keep going on at this?
DONALD TRUMP:
She couldn’t even get back on the stage last night.
CHUCK TODD:
What?
DONALD TRUMP:
I’ll tell you why. Because we need a president with great strength and great stamina and Hillary doesn’t have that. We cannot have another bad president like we have right now. We need a president with tremendous intelligence, smarts, cunning, strength and stamina. And Hillary doesn’t have that.
CHUCK TODD:
There’s a lot of things I’ve heard about Hillary Clinton. The idea, though, she did travel more than any Secretary of State, it’s a grueling job. This is somebody that’s been on the national stage for the last 25 years.
DONALD TRUMP:
She’s sitting on an airplane Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, so are you.
DONALD TRUMP:
She may have traveled a lot, but you know what? She didn’t do the job because the entire world blew up around her. So she wasted a lot of time and a lot of energy and a lot of money and frankly, she wasted a lot of lives because her policies were a disaster for the world, the Middle East has blown up around her. Her decisions were horrible, and hundreds of thousands of people have been killed because of her faulty decisions.
# # #
Trump: Jeb Bush Is ‘An Embarrassment to the Bush Family’
WATCH: http://nbcnews.to/1Qzsi0T
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you to respond to your friend Jeb Bush and what he had to say about you yesterday. Take a listen to the full quote and I’ll get you on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO)
JEB BUSH:
Just one other thing, and I gotta get this off my chest, Donald Trump is a jerk. I feel better now, I gave myself therapy there, thank you for allowing me to do it.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Well, this has escalated between you and Mr. Bush.
DONALD TRUMP:
Look, people gave him that quote, you could see he was just saying, “Okay, I’m ready now, I’m ready now to say it.” Jeb is a weak and ineffective person. He’s also a low energy person, which I’ve said before. But he’s a weak and ineffective person. Jeb, if he were President, it would just be more of the same, it would be just– he’s got money from all of the lobbyists and all of the special interests that run him like a puppet.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
DONALD TRUMP:
He’s got two percent in the polls, I have 41 percent in the latest poll. He has two percent. He’s going to be off the stage soon. He’s an embarrassment to the Bush family and in fact, he doesn’t even want to use the Bush name, which is interesting. Jeb is an embarrassment to himself and to his family and the Republican Party, they’re not even listening to Jeb.
Jeb is saying that– by the way, Chuck, Jeb is only saying that to try and get a little mojo going, but in the meantime, I went up 11 points in the new Fox Poll, I went up 11 points after the debate and he went down two.
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Sen. Sanders On If DNC Is Treating Him Fairly
WATCH: http://nbcnews.to/1QzrSre
CHUCK TODD:
Do you believe the DNC is treating you fairly?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I think in this instance they did not. On two occasions now, Chuck, in the last several months, breaches have occurred as the result of the incompetence of DNC vendors, there’s two separate vendors. And then what happened is, you know, our the first time, our staff said, “Hey, we got information from the Clinton campaign.”
They did the right thing, they went back to the DNC and the vendor. Second time, some of our staff screwed up and I apologized for that. But to shut off our access to our own information, to significantly hinder our campaign was a complete overreaction and that was absolutely wrong.
CHUCK TODD:
But you acknowledge that you had staffers who essentially, if they didn’t rob the Hillary Clinton voter file, they certainly took pictures–
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Hold it, hold it, Chuck, Chuck, let me just say this, let’s be clear.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
As a result of a breach caused by the DNC vendor, not by us, information came into our campaign about the Clinton campaign.
CHUCK TODD:
Magically?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
We didn’t go out and take it.
CHUCK TODD:
It magically came there or you had a staff that got it?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Yes, that’s what the–
CHUCK TODD:
You believe it accidentally came in? Okay. Go ahead.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
That’s not a dispute, there was a breach caused by the incompetence of the DNC vendor. That information came into our campaign. First time it came in, our staff did the right thing. They said, “Hey, we got information from the Clinton campaign, we don’t want this,” and they went to the DNC.
The second time a staffer or more, we don’t know yet, we’re doing that investigation, screwed up. And we have fired that person. Point is that the DNC that proposed because of the initial screw up on their part to take away our access for our own information, which significantly hampers our campaign. Fortunately, that has been resolved.
# # #
Sen. Sanders Advocates for Payroll Tax Increase
WATCH: http://nbcnews.to/1Ypz79v
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let me move on to another topic, Clinton made a pledge she was not going to raise taxes on anybody–on any households $250,000 or below, you would not make that pledge. You talked about, “Hey, for just $1.60 a week, you’re going to get paid family leave and some other things.”
How much are taxes going to go up if you’re President of the United States? Can you say, you’ve got a lot you want to pay for, can you give us a number about how much you’re going to raise taxes?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, this is what I can say. We’re going to do away with the corporate loopholes that allow major profitable corporations to stash their money in the Cayman Islands and not pay a nickel in some cases in federal income tax, that’s $100 billion a year.
We’re going to impose a tax on Wall Street speculation to pay for, to make sure that public colleges and universities in America are tuition-free. We’re going to raise the estate tax for very, very wealthy people, the top two-tenths of 1%. But in terms of this issue that you raised, I do disagree with the Secretary. I believe the United States should join the rest of the world through paid family and medical leave. It will cost us $1.61 a week and an increase in payroll tax, I think that’s a great investment.
CHUCK TODD:
Is that the only thing you plan on raising taxes on the middle class on?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Yes, that’s right. Look, we have seen a huge transfer of wealth from the middle-class to the top one-tenth of 1%.
# # #
Speaker Ryan on President Obama: “We’re Going to Have One Heck of a Contrast in 2016”
WATCH: http://nbcnews.to/1lXHojZ
CHUCK TODD:
Let me move on to your relationship with President Obama. You’ve been in seven weeks. Correct me if I’m wrong, I don’t think you’ve had a face-to-face meeting. How is it the speaker of the House and the President of the United States –
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I saw him at the Christmas party.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Yeah, I saw him –
CHUCK TODD:
But has there been a one-on-one, two guys leading the country?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
No. We’ve talked on the phone a couple of times. He did today invite me over to have a meal with him after the first of the year.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay. What do you hope to accomplish with him in your – in a one-on-one meeting?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
We don’t agree on much. We see things very differently. I think what we will probably try to do is where we can get things done, where we can find common ground without compromising principles, get those things done. Make sure that government works. But we’re going to have one heck of a contrast in 2016.
# # #
Below are highlights, video clips, and a rush transcript of today’s program. Additional show video is available online at www.MeetThePressNBC.com. Join the conversation online with hashtag #MTP.
- Full Interview: Republican Presidential Candidate Donald Trump http://nbcnews.to/1PjhVwx
- Full Interview: Democratic Presidential Candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders http://nbcnews.to/1OEwk1E
- Full Interview with House Speaker Paul Ryan http://nbcnews.to/1J0ZsDv
- A Paul Ryan PolitiFact Check http://nbcnews.to/1IhWtXn
- Speaker Ryan Defends Spending Bill: ‘We Fought For As Much As We Could Get” http://nbcnews.to/1Mps6sN
- Speaker Ryan on Polarization in Politics http://nbcnews.to/1PjhXo0
- Presidential Candidates’ First Concerts http://nbcnews.to/1MpvFzm
- Holiday Shopping Habits Across Red and Blue America http://nbcnews.to/1YucUSb
- Who is the Kindest Person Sec. Johnson Knows in Washington? http://nbcnews.to/1O1sLq5
- Sparks Fly at Democratic Debate in New Hampshire http://nbcnews.to/1QzoQmK
# # #
Meet the Press – December 20, 2015
CHUCK TODD:
This Sunday morning, Donald Trump dominating the national polls now more than ever.
DONALD TRUMP:
Something is going on, and it’s beautiful to see.
CHUCK TODD:
But no one has ever won without paying more attention to early states like Iowa. Trump is rewriting the rules, can be rewrite history? Donald Trump joins me live. Last night’s Democratic Debate.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Secretary Clinton is too much into regime change and a little bit too aggressive without knowing what the unintended consequences might be.
CHUCK TODD:
Did Bernie Sanders pass the Commander-in-Chief test? He joins me this morning. And Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, says he and President Obama don’t agree on much.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
We’re gonna have one heck of a contrast in 2016
CHUCK TODD:
So why is Ryan confident that he and the President can get things done? My exclusive end of the year sit down with the Speaker. Joining me this morning for insight and analysis are: NBC and Telemundo’s Jose Diaz-Balart, Pulitzer Prize winning historian Doris Kearns Goodwin, Maggie Haberman of The New York Times and radio talk show host, Hugh Hewitt. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet The Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, this is Meet the Press with Chuck Todd.
CHUCK TODD:
Good Sunday morning. Tip O’Neill famously said that all politics is local. Donald Trump has a different idea. He’s betting that all politics is national. This week, Trump dominated the national polls again and in fact as never before, topping the second place finisher. No matter what poll you use, Ted Cruz, in each case had more than 20 points.
Tradition would tell you that national polls at this stage are meaningless. Just ask Presidents Giuliani and Herman Cain. But Donald Trump and now, Marco Rubio, are throwing out the old rule book that says you have to win Iowa or New Hampshire before building a national campaign.
Trump will join me just a moment, wants to rewrite that rule book, the question is: Can he rewrite history?
(BEGIN TAPE)
DONALD TRUMP:
The only one I’m not leading in is the stupid Des Moines Register. What a…
CHUCK TODD:
Trump is drawing thousands to rallies with a whistle-stop strategy, often parking his Boeing-757 within view of the stage. He’s ignoring the kind of face-to-face retail politics that have been the political playbook for decades.
Trump has held just 32 public campaign events in Iowa this year. His biggest threat there, Ted Cruz, has held 75.
And in New Hampshire, Trump has made just 22 stops, compared to Jeb Bush’s 66, and Chris Christie’s 111 stops. Those candidates dismiss the fact that they’re lagging nationally.
JEB BUSH:
This time eight years ago, Hillary Clinton was 25 points ahead of Barack Obama. I don’t remember people saying, “Obama, you’ve got to get out of the race.”
CHUCK TODD:
True, but we’ve never seen someone like Trump. He is saturating social media–
DONALD TRUMP:
I’m the Ernest Hemingway of 140 characters
CHUCK TODD:
–and he’s dominating cable news. On Fox News, a traditional home for Republican primary voters, Trump has gotten nearly 8 times as many mentions as Cruz over the past month.
Rubio is following a similar strategy. In Iowa, he’s chosen to invest in television ads over staffers and field offices, and he’s been criticized for a light campaign schedule. Just 48 stops this year.
HALLIE JACKSON:
You haven’t been in Iowa nearly as much as Ted Cruz
SEN. MARCO RUBIO:
I’ve read that … that’s just not true.
CHUCK TODD:
Meanwhile, Ted Cruz is betting on a traditional campaign playbook, rolling out endorsements, and opening a dormitory in Des Moines, nicknamed Camp Cruz, for volunteers from out of state.
CRUZ VOLUNTEER:
Let’s go Cruz crew, we’ve got three minutes
CHUCK TODD:
Cruz and Rubio are already in an all-out brawl, competing to be the leading alternative to Trump.
SEN. TED CRUZ:
Marco’s campaign is lying.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO:
He’s not told the truth about his position in the past
CHUCK TODD:
Rubio’s sponsorship of the Senate 2013 immigration reform bill was met with hostility by many conservatives, but Rubio insists Cruz just won’t admit that he backed the reform too.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO:
He supported an amendment in the U.S. senate when we were debating the immigration bill where he flat out bragged about the fact that he wasn’t undoing the legalization.
CHUCK TODD:
Rubio is trying to expose Cruz as just another slippery Washington politician, but Cruz is having none of it, attacking Rubio on the air–
SEN. TED CRUZ:
The Republican establishment’s Gang of 8 amnesty plan
CHUCK TODD:
Back in 2013, Cruz said this–
JAN CRAWFORD:
What would you do with the 11 million people who are here illegally?
SEN. TED CRUZ:
I think there could probably be a compromise on that, if a path to citizenship was taken off the table
CHUCK TODD:
But now Cruz is is ruling out legal status for undocumented immigrants, now or in the future.
SEN. TED CRUZ
I have never once supported legalization, I do not now and I will never support it.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Well, I’m joined now on the phone by Republican Presidential candidate, Donald Trump. Mr. Trump, welcome back to Meet The Press, sir.
DONALD TRUMP:
Good morning, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Good morning. Let me start with last night’s Democratic Debate; not surprisingly, the only Republican candidate I think that was talked about by name was you. I want to play one particular quote that Hillary Clinton said last night and get you to respond to it. Here it is.
(BEGIN TAPE)
SEC. HILLARY CLINTON:
He is becoming ISIS’ best recruiter. They are going to people, showing videos of Donald Trump insulting Islam and muslims in order to recruit more radical jihadists.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Now I know what you’re about to say. No fact-checker has been able to back up her claim on that.
DONALD TRUMP:
That’s exactly correct. I was going to say that, exactly correct. Right, nobody has been able to back that up. It’s nonsense. It’s just another Hillary lie. She lies like crazy about everything, whether it’s trips where she was being gunned down in a helicopter or an airplane, she’s a liar and everybody knows that. But she just made this up in thin air.
CHUCK TODD:
But let me ask you this: If you knew your words were being used in recruitments videos, because I’ve had plenty of intelligence officials worry about this, and you’re right, there’s no evidence yet, but if you knew your words were being used would you change your language?
DONALD TRUMP:
No, because I think that my words represent toughness and strength. Hillary’s not strong, Hillary’s weak, frankly. She’s got no stamina, she’s got nothing, she doesn’t–
CHUCK TODD:
Let me stop you there.
DONALD TRUMP:
She couldn’t even get back on the stage. Nobody knows what happened to her, it’s like she went home and went to sleep–
CHUCK TODD:
Why do you keep going on at this?
DONALD TRUMP:
She couldn’t even get back on the stage last night.
CHUCK TODD:
What?
DONALD TRUMP:
I’ll tell you why. Because we need a president with great strength and great stamina and Hillary doesn’t have that. We cannot have another bad president like we have right now. We need a president with tremendous intelligence, smarts, cunning, strength and stamina. And Hillary doesn’t have that.
CHUCK TODD:
There’s a lot of things I’ve heard about Hillary Clinton. The idea, though, she did travel more than any Secretary of State, it’s a grueling job. This is somebody that’s been on the national stage for the last 25 years.
DONALD TRUMP:
She’s sitting on an airplane Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, so are you.
DONALD TRUMP:
She may have traveled a lot, but you know what? She didn’t do the job because the entire world blew up around her. So she wasted a lot of time and a lot of energy and a lot of money and frankly, she wasted a lot of lives because her policies were a disaster for the world, the Middle East has blown up around her. Her decisions were horrible, and hundreds of thousands of people have been killed because of her faulty decisions.
CHUCK TODD:
I’ve heard you say that. Hundreds of thousands of people, that is–
DONALD TRUMP:
Of course, of course–
CHUCK TODD:
Where? What is this charged?
DONALD TRUMP:
How about Libya? How about all the bad decisions? Look, how about Libya? How about what’s going on with the migration, which essentially was caused by her faulty decisions along with her President, her leader, our great President who is grossly incompetent.
How about now? You look at our President. How about the Iran deal? One of the worst deals I’ve ever seen negotiated in my life, Chuck. I mean, it’s just bad deal, bad decision, after bad deal after bad decision.
CHUCK TODD:
Why are you so comfortable praising Vladimir Putin?
DONALD TRUMP:
I’m not, I didn’t praise him, he praised me. He called me brilliant. He said very nice things about me. I mean, I accept it–
CHUCK TODD:
Well you’ve called him a strong leader–
DONALD TRUMP:
He is a strong leader. What am I gonna say, he’s a weak leader? He’s making mincemeat out of our President. He is a strong leader. I mean, you would like me to call him a weak leader, he’s a strong leader. And I’m not going to be politically correct.
He’s got an 80% of approval rating done by pollsters from, I understand, this country, okay? So it’s not even done by his pollsters. He’s very popular within Russia. Now that may change, but I didn’t say anything one way or the other. He came out with a very nice statement about me and I said, “That’s very nice, I’m honored by it.”
And it would be very nice if we got along with Russia, Chuck, it’s not a bad thing, it’s a good thing. He cannot stand our President. He doesn’t like President Obama. I think it would be a positive thing if Russia and the United States actually got along and they could work to the mutual good of getting rid of ISIS and clean things up. I mean, right now, we don’t get along with them at all.
CHUCK TODD:
Right, but right now, Vladimir Putin is the best ally Iran has around the world and the best ally that Assad has in Syria.
DONALD TRUMP:
No, by making the horrible deal, one of the worst deals I’ve ever seen made in my entire life, giving them $150 billion and 24-day check periods, which don’t start for a long time after that, 24-day check periods, self-inspection, we don’t get our prisoners back, our four prisoners, we don’t get them back.
We gave them $150 billion. We happen to be in its own sick and horrible way, we happen to have been one of the great allies of Iran, if you want to know the truth. And by the way, just to add to that?
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
DONALD TRUMP:
We also handed them Iraq on a silver platter. We gave them Iraq with the second-largest oil reserves in the world. They’re taking over Iraq as you speak to me this morning. So we gave them one of the best deals ever made. And by the way, they’re taking that money now and they’re giving it to Russia and others where they’re buying armaments.
CHUCK TODD:
Do you stick by the idea that the Middle East would be more stable today with Saddam Hussein and Gadhafi in power?
DONALD TRUMP:
One hundred percent, 100 percent, is there even a doubt in your mind? And you wouldn’t have the migration and you wouldn’t have the people coming over to this country that we have no idea who they are. And if I win, they’re going to have to go back because we have no idea who they are. One hundred percent..
CHUCK TODD:
And if you become President, do you–
DONALD TRUMP:
And you know what we would have done?–
CHUCK TODD:
Do you let Assad stay?
DONALD TRUMP:
You know what? Well, you can’t fight Assad and ISIS at the same time. You have to fight ISIS first. And I don’t say Assad is good, but I–
CHUCK TODD:
That’s exactly what Bernie Sanders believes, by the way. You and Bernie Sanders are in line on this.
DONALD TRUMP:
Well that’s okay. And I agree with him on that. It’s okay to agree with him. He’s a guy, I don’t agree with him on much, but if he says that, I’m okay with it. Let me just tell you: You can’t fight them both at the same time. And I say Assad’s a bad guy, but we don’t know who the rebels are that are fighting.
Every time we get involved with rebels, take a look at Libya, all these rebels, look what they did to our ambassador and those young men, those wonderful young men. Every time we get involved, in Benghazi I’m talking about, every time we get involved with rebels, the rebels, they call them “the freedom rebels,” always nice names, it ends up being far worse than the people who were there in the first place.
So Assad is not a good guy, but the people that we’re backing, a lot of people think they’re ISIS, that we’re actually backing ISIS. So what are we doing? We have to get rid of ISIS first; Assad, we think about later on.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you to respond to your friend Jeb Bush and what he had to say about you yesterday. Take a listen to the full quote and I’ll get you on the other side.
(BEGIN VIDEO)
JEB BUSH:
Just one other thing, and I gotta get this off my chest, Donald Trump is a jerk. I feel better now, I gave myself therapy there, thank you for allowing me to do it.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Well, this has escalated between you and Mr. Bush.
DONALD TRUMP:
Look, people gave him that quote, you could see he was just saying, “Okay, I’m ready now, I’m ready now to say it.” Jeb is a weak and ineffective person. He’s also a low energy person, which I’ve said before. But he’s a weak and ineffective person. Jeb, if he were President, it would just be more of the same, it would be just– he’s got money from all of the lobbyists and all of the special interests that run him like a puppet.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
DONALD TRUMP:
He’s got two percent in the polls, I have 41 percent in the latest poll. He has two percent. He’s going to be off the stage soon. He’s an embarrassment to the Bush family and in fact, he doesn’t even want to use the Bush name, which is interesting. Jeb is an embarrassment to himself and to his family and the Republican Party, they’re not even listening to Jeb.
Jeb is saying that– by the way, Chuck, Jeb is only saying that to try and get a little mojo going, but in the meantime, I went up 11 points in the new Fox Poll, I went up 11 points after the debate and he went down two.
CHUCK TODD:
Very quickly, why has Ted Cruz caught you in Iowa? We can dispute whether you’re ahead by a point or two, whether he’s ahead by five or six, but the fact of the matter, Ted Cruz has caught you in Iowa and he might beat you in Iowa.
DONALD TRUMP:
Chuck, I just got back from Iowa last night. I was there for a long time yesterday, we had a tremendous rally. And frankly, I think we’re doing great in Iowa. I don’t know. I mean, I can’t tell you who caught who. I think Ted is doing well and I’m doing well.
It looks like a two-person race because everyone else is way behind. But I’m doing really well with the Evangelicals, who I love; I’m doing really well with every group, with the Tea Party group, just everybody. I mean, I can only speak for myself.
We really have a good team in Iowa and I’ll find out, let’s see what happens on February 1st, but Ted is doing well there and I’m doing well there. And if you look at the numbers in New Hampshire, I mean, I’m through the roof there and in South Carolina, I’m through the roof there. I mean, I’m way ahead in those two states. And Ted and I are pretty even, although the last three polls have me up in Iowa as you know.
CHUCK TODD:
Is it pretty fair to say that if you’re not the nominee, you’d prefer Ted Cruz?
DONALD TRUMP:
No, I don’t want to say anything about that, but Ted has been very nice to me, very respectful, very– almost in every single instance, he backs my ideas. And you know, probably more so– and Ben Carson’s been very nice, also. Look, believe it or not, I get along with a lot of the people on that stage. But Ted has been very nice to me, yes.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, I think everybody right now except Mr. Bush. Donald Trump, I have to leave it there. Have a Merry Christmas, happy new year, look forward to a face-to-face, after the first of the year.
DONALD TRUMP:
You, too. Merry Christmas, happy New Year to everybody and it’s been an interesting time.
CHUCK TODD:
Stay safe.
DONALD TRUMP:
Thank you much. It’s been an interesting time.
CHUCK TODD:
Thank you. Hugh Hewitt, what do you think?
HUGH HEWITT:
Well, I thought he was consistent with what he said on Tuesday night. I like the fact that he took it right to Hillary Clinton at the beginning. This is what Republican candidates need to do. They need to point out the fact that she made up another video last night.
She left Libya in chaos. So I think Donald Trump showed the Republicans how to take the campaigns of Hillary Clinton and he did it very effectively. He has been caught in Iowa and I think that that will schange the campaign, but he did a very nice job right now.
CHUCK TODD:
Maggie, he’s on the verge of discipline sometimes. It was actually at the debate, the first half of the debate, he was very disciplined. Second half of the debate, he did let Jeb Bush get underneath his skin and it does bug him a little bit.
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
Oh–
CHUCK TODD:
But he did spend more time, you know, I was ready to go to more and “I got another thing to say about Jeb Bush.” For somebody at 2% of the polls, he’s got a lot to say.
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
That is one of the interesting dynamics of this race. You have this race going on between Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz and then you have this Trump/Jeb fight, which is not necessarily representative of where the race is going to end up. But they represent the two polls on the issue that is most important within the Republican Party right now which is immigration and they are each sucking up each other’s focus, if not the same polling energy.
CHUCK TODD:
Right.
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
Jeb Bush came very close to getting Donald Trump to blow up I thought in the debate and then backed off a little bit. And yet he is clearly, still to your point, needling Trump.
CHUCK TODD:
This is one of the unknowns. All right, I’m going to take a quick pause here, we’ll get everybody back in, we’ve got a lot to get to. When we come back, we’ll return to the Democrats. They debated last night in New Hampshire, but is Bernie Sanders running out of time? He joins me next.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Last night was the final Democratic debate of the year and it started with a little seasonal peace and goodwill from Bernie Sanders, who apologized to Hillary Clinton for his aide’s breach of her campaign’s voter data. However, they did clash over their different approaches to the war against ISIS.
(BEGIN TAPE)
SEC. HILLARY CLINTON:
We will not get the support on the ground in Syria to dislodge ISIS if the fighters there who are not associated with ISIS but whose principle goal is getting rid of Assad don’t believe there is a political diplomatic channel that is on going.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I think we have to get our foreign policies and our priorities right. The immediate–it’s not Assad who is attacking the United States. It is ISIS. And ISIS is attacking France. And attacking Russian airliners. The major priority right now in terms of our foreign and military policy should be the destruction of ISIS.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Senator Sanders joins me now, Senator, welcome back to Meet The Press, sir.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Thank you very much, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
I want to pick up on the ISIS comment because you said something else in here that caught my eye. You said, you were talking about, look, we could get rid of Saddam Hussein, but that destabilized an entire region; we could get rid of Gadhafi, a terrible dictator, but that created a vacuum for ISIS and we could get rid of Assad tomorrow, but that would create another political vacuum.
Let me ask you this: Would the Middle East be more stable today with Saddam, Gadhafi and Assad, all sort of strong men in charge?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, the answer is all three of those guys are terrible dictators and the goal is through a Democratic process to get rid of terrible dictators. But the truth, the simple answer to your question is, I think, yes, the region would be much more stable. The point here is that it is easy for a major power like the United States to get rid of somebody like Saddam Hussein, but the reason I opposed the war in Iraq is I worried very much about the destabilization in the region and what would happen the day after.
And sadly, many of the concerns that I had turned out to be right, similarly, in Libya. Gadhafi, terrible dictator, gotten rid of. Right now, ISIS is gaining ground in Libya because of all of the destabilization in the region and all of the turmoil.
So I think what you need is coalitions, broad coalitions to work together to create a process by which we remove people or through democratic change.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, the problem is, as Secretary Clinton pointed out, is that ISIS and a lot of the people that you want in this coalition, you know, Arab boots on the ground rather than U.S. boots on the ground, they’re more concerned with Assad than they are with ISIS. And if our priority isn’t to get rid of Assad, they won’t join this coalition. Isn’t that the Catch 22 here, sir?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Look, I mean, that’s a fair point and no one denies this is a complicated issue. But here is my point: What American leadership is about is to put as much pressure as we can and we have the leverage to do that. We have the leverage to bring countries together to demand that they overcome their differences because right now the crisis facing this world is international terrorism. It is ISIS. Assad, I want to see him go. But that is a secondary issue compared to the destruction of ISIS.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let me move on to another topic, Clinton made a pledge she was not going to raise taxes on anybody–on any households $250,000 or below, you would not make that pledge. You talked about, “Hey, for just $1.60 a week, you’re going to get paid family leave and some other things.”
How much are taxes going to go up if you’re President of the United States? Can you say, you’ve got a lot you want to pay for, can you give us a number about how much you’re going to raise taxes?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, this is what I can say. We’re going to do away with the corporate loopholes that allow major profitable corporations to stash their money in the Cayman Islands and not pay a nickel in some cases in federal income tax, that’s $100 billion a year.
We’re going to impose a tax on Wall Street speculation to pay for, to make sure that public colleges and universities in America are tuition-free. We’re going to raise the estate tax for very, very wealthy people, the top two-tenths of 1%. But in terms of this issue that you raised, I do disagree with the Secretary. I believe the United States should join the rest of the world through paid family and medical leave. It will cost us $1.61 a week and an increase in payroll tax, I think that’s a great investment.
CHUCK TODD:
Is that the only thing you plan on raising taxes on the middle class on?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Yes, that’s right. Look, we have seen a huge transfer of wealth from the middle-class to the top one-tenth of 1%.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I think it is appropriate to ask the wealthy and large corporations to start paying their fair share of taxes.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let me move quickly to this DNC issue. Do you believe the DNC is treating you fairly?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I think in this instance they did not. On two occasions now, Chuck, in the last several months, breaches have occurred as the result of the incompetence of DNC vendors, there’s two separate vendors. And then what happened is, you know, our the first time, our staff said, “Hey, we got information from the Clinton campaign.”
They did the right thing, they went back to the DNC and the vendor. Second time, some of our staff screwed up and I apologized for that. But to shut off our access to our own information, to significantly hinder our campaign was a complete overreaction and that was absolutely wrong.
CHUCK TODD:
But you acknowledge that you had staffers who essentially, if they didn’t rob the Hillary Clinton voter file, they certainly took pictures–
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Hold it, hold it, Chuck, Chuck, let me just say this, let’s be clear.
CHUCK TODD:
Okay.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
As a result of a breach caused by the DNC vendor, not by us, information came into our campaign about the Clinton campaign.
CHUCK TODD:
Magically?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
We didn’t go out and take it.
CHUCK TODD:
It magically came there or you had a staff that got it?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Yes, that’s what the–
CHUCK TODD:
You believe it accidentally came in? Okay. Go ahead.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
That’s not a dispute, there was a breach caused by the incompetence of the DNC vendor. That information came into our campaign. First time it came in, our staff did the right thing. They said, “Hey, we got information from the Clinton campaign, we don’t want this,” and they went to the DNC.
The second time a staffer or more, we don’t know yet, we’re doing that investigation, screwed up. And we have fired that person. Point is that the DNC that proposed because of the initial screw up on their part to take away our access for our own information, which significantly hampers our campaign. Fortunately, that has been resolved.
CHUCK TODD:
All right. Senator Sanders, I’m going to leave it there. I know it was a late night, early morning, I appreciate you coming on for a quick post-debate wrap.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Good, thank you very much.
CHUCK TODD:
Thank you, sir. And for more reaction to last night’s debate, I am joined by John Podesta, chairman of Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign, Mr. Podesta, welcome back to Meet the Press sir.
JOHN PODESTA:
Nice to be with you, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you to respond to something Secretary Clinton said last night about Donald Trump and ISIS. I know you heard the conversation I had with Mr. Trump already. Fact checkers can’t say it–she said definitively that it is being used for propaganda. Where do you have this information? Do you guys have information that we do not have?
JOHN PODESTA:
Well look Chuck, your own network ran a piece citing the most important organization that follows ISIS on social media that said that they are using social media, that they are using Donald Trump as a recruitment tool. So that’s what she was referencing and that’s the interpretation we made. And I think that if you look at what is going on in the Middle East, the fact that Mr. Trump is on television over there all the time, the fact that ISIS is using him as a recruitment tool, I think it is a very fair charge.
CHUCK TODD:
Well–
JOHN PODESTA:
He has become a recruitment tool–
CHUCK TODD:
I know there’s, I understand what you are referring to–
JOHN PODESTA:
He’s becoming a very important recruitment tool for ISIS.
CHUCK TODD:
But I understand what you are referring to and there was concern that he would become an important recruitment tool. She said it definitively, very declaratively and that in the piece you are referring to it was about the concern.
JOHN PODESTA:
I think if you, if you go back and look at social media, if you look at what is going on there, they are definitely pointing to Mr. Trump.
CHUCK TODD:
So you stand–she stands by this comment?
JOHN PODESTA:
She does.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me ask you about Senator Sanders and that he is being treated unfairly by the DNC. Do you accept his apology and do you think he is telling the truth?
JOHN PODESTA:
Well, I liked his apology last night a lot better than what I heard this morning. I think this was an egregious breach, this notion that somehow this information just kind of came into the possession of his campaign is just completely inaccurate. The firewall went down, they made 25 separate searches, 24 occasions.
They tried to move information into personal files, that was information that we had gathered, spent an enormous amount of volunteer effort to put together and these were very directed searches about who our supporters were, who the people who were least likely to support us were and they got caught.
And they didn’t respond well to the DNC. But he acknowledged that it was an error, they fired their top data guy. He wasn’t a 20-year-old kid, he was a 39-year-old Ph.D. That’s a very senior position in the campaign. They just put two other people on suspense–
CHUCK TODD:
You don’t think he’s being forthcoming?
JOHN PODESTA:
This is a very serious breach.
CHUCK TODD:
You don’t think he’s being forthcoming?
JOHN PODESTA:
Well, I don’t think his campaign’s been particularly forthcoming. Look, I think that Senator Sanders is a good guy and I think that his campaign is a little bit not serving him well. In this instance, I think they were clearly did something that was unethical and if you look, though, at other occasions, they’ve created a culture where Senator Sanders says he doesn’t want to run negative ads and then he has to pull the negative ads.
He says he doesn’t want a Super-PAC, but a Super-PAC’s supporting him. So I think he’s got a problem in his campaign with the culture of that campaign and I think that was shown in this incident. And I think that we are the victims of this, not the Sanders campaign.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, John Podesta, campaign chair for Secretary Clinton, thanks for spending a little bit of time this morning, appreciate it.
JOHN PODESTA:
All right, Chuck.
CHUCK TODD:
In a moment Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, on what he and President Obama might actually get done in 2016.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Here’s a little fun political note this Christmas Season. Not only do liberals and conservatives think differently and vote differently, they shop differently, too. Let me show you this.
According to Simmons Research, here are top ten places where conservatives shop. Most of these stores are located in the South. And here are the stores where liberals shop, they’re mostly in urban areas. You’ll notice not one store in the conservative list appears on the liberal list, notrone store on the liberal list appearing on the conservative list.
A lot of this is geography, but still, it just shows you how we have totally sorted ourselves out. We’ll be back in a moment with the Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan, on what he thinks he and the President can actually get done.
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Welcome back. It would be an understatement to say there is conservative anger over the budget deal agreed to by the House Speaker Paul Ryan. Just take a look at this headline from the Washington Times, “White House declares total victory over GOP in budget battle.”
Needless to say, conservatives are unhappy that Planned Parenthood and Obamacare are funded, that there are no restrictions on Syrian and Iraqi refugees, and there are no measures blocking President Obama’s efforts to fight climate change.
Speaker Ryan has heard the criticism. I sat down with him on Friday, and he said he’d deal with Planned Parenthood in the new year, and that conservatives need to accept that he had to make compromises to get a deal done.
(BEGIN TAPE)
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
But let me first say, this is divided government. And in divided government you don’t get everything you want. So we fought for as much as we could get. We advanced our priorities and principles. Not every single one of them, but many of them. And then we’re going to pick up next year and pick up where we left off and keep going for more.
CHUCK TODD:
And I wanted to try to get through this interview without using the word omnibus.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
You just said it.
CHUCK TODD:
I know. Because you one time said, “Omnibus equals a crap sandwich when you were a member, not speaker.” Now that you’re speaker, do you think Member Paul Ryan was a little naive
PAUL RYAN
Everybody knows that I walked into the speakership seven weeks ago with this process already in place. With its cake already baked. And so what I did is I went to work to make the best of this process. To get some good wins for Conservatives, like lifting the oil export ban for the first time in 40 years.
Getting permanency on tax policy. Getting some good riders about–limiting the I.R.S. so that the I.R.S. can’t meddle in politics. Making sure that we get more pro-life riders. So those are some wins we did get. But the point I would say is this is a process I inherited. I fully own that.
But it’s also a process that will help us get to what we call regular order next year, where we don’t wind up with the same kind of situation next year. That is my hope and that is my goal.
CHUCK TODD:
What does it say, though. So Mark Levin says, “They betrayed you,” referring to you. “They betrayed your children and grandchildren.” Laura Ingraham. “Omni-BUST. Marco Rubio is to Jeb Bush as Paul Ryan is to John Boehner.” That is not meant as a compliment, as you might know.
But Harry Reid said this, “It’s a good product for the American people.” So here you have Harry Reid praising you.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Yes, right.
CHUCK TODD:
And all these Conservative opinion leaders calling it betrayal.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Oh, look, none of this stuff gets to me. Look, I think the results are what matters. We made good on our promises. We advanced good legislature, and more importantly–
CHUCK TODD:
You think this rhetoric is inappropriate?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Oh I don’t think–
CHUCK TODD:
And out of line?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I don’t really pay attention to it, look people know who I am.
CHUCK TODD:
Some of your members do.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
The members know that I am a movement conservative. They know that I am doer, not a be-er.
I want to make sure that we have an agenda that we take to the American people that is rooted in our founding principles. This is what conservatives believe. To give the country a very clear choice. And that’s what we’re excited and looking forward to in 2016.
CHUCK TODD:
You were pretty aggressive when it comes to pushing– you were talking about your tax. You were pretty happy about this, on the tax. But one of the criticisms from hawks is guess what? $700 billion in permanent tax cuts. What you’ve done with Obamacare, it’s probably going to be these yearly extenders, which if it becomes permanent, it’s another $250 billion. They’re not paid for. That’s a trillion dollars in tax cuts not paid for.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Let me reject the premise of your point in question.
CHUCK TODD:
You don’t think tax cuts should be paid for?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
That’s not what this is. These tax policies are in law. We want to keep them in law. And by keeping taxes where they are that means we’re keeping them where they are. That doesn’t mean we’re cutting taxes. We’re keeping taxes where they are, because there’s an artificial problem in the law that says these taxes will raise. Not raising taxes is not cutting taxes. It’s not raising taxes.
CHUCK TODD:
No. I–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
But the point I’d make is this really isn’t a tax cut as much as it’s tax certainty.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me move to your relationship with President Obama. You’ve been in seven weeks.
What is something you think you guys could get done?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I think criminal justice reform is one of those areas that we’ve talked about getting things done. Getting this appropriations process back on track.
CHUCK TODD:
So trade?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
We’ll see when we can get that done, but that’s one thing. We’re still looking at that trade agreement.
CHUCK TODD:
But that’s something you probably will work with the White House on, not necessarily–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I haven’t made my mind up. I haven’t spread the entirety of the agreement yet, but that’s something conceivably that could be done. But let me just say this. First of all, he’s not on the ballot again. There will be other people on the ballot again. But I believe the president has succeeded in transforming this country in a direction that it was never supposed to go in the first place.
CHUCK TODD:
You came down hard on Donald Trump on his proposal on Muslims. You said: “this is not conservatism. What was proposed … is not what this party stands for and, more importantly, it’s not what this country stands for.” Very hard. In many ways you gave cover for other Republicans to also criticize him. Here we are, two weeks later, about 10 days after he’s done it. Is Donald Trump more in step with the party right now than you are?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I think it’s a big tent Republican party. I don’t think I’m out of step because I’m a known conservative. Look, people know me as a very conservative person who’s been advancing ideas like balancing budgets, reforming welfare, entitlements, tax reform. All the rest.
There is room in this tent for a lot of people. It is a majority party. This nomination process is going to be healthy. I trust the Republican primary voter to pick a nominee that can take us all the way to win the White House so we can fix this country.
CHUCK TODD:
Are you concerned, though, about Donald Trump’s rhetoric? Obviously you were with that one.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
Obviously I don’t agree with what he said with respect to a religious test. I was speaking up for the First Amendment. Religious freedom, right of conscience, that is a fundamental right. It’s a natural right. And it’s a Constitutional right. And it’s something that we as conservatives should always forcefully defend.
CHUCK TODD:
What is the process you’re going to go through to make that decision if you want to be speaker going into 2017?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I haven’t even thought of that. I don’t know. I’m focusing on–
CHUCK TODD:
Is it family? Is it whether a Democrat is in the White House or a Republican is in the White House? Or are you enjoying this job more than you thought?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I actually am enjoying it more than I thought I would. I really haven’t given it that kind of thought. I’m so focused on the here and the now. What I want to do is get Congress working again. Open up the process. Get us back to running Congress the way the founders intended it.
CHUCK TODD:
Most likely, whoever’s elected president, is going to become immediately polarizing. We are living in times where it feels that this is–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
That’s right.
CHUCK TODD:
Is there anything you and President Obama can do together that could lay the groundwork to just lessen it a little bit? Have you guys thought about that? Have you thought about that?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
I think he’s one of the most polarizing presidents we’ve ever had.
CHUCK TODD:
But isn’t it going to be anybody at this point? Isn’t part of this environment–
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
But I think leadership matters. Leaders can unify and leaders can polarize. This president has decided to polarize.
CHUCK TODD:
But you guys are going to try to defund his signature healthcare law. For many progressives, that’s a polarizing move.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
It’s a law that is not working. It’s a law that’s depriving people’s choices. It’s a law that’s making families pay double digit premium increases. It’s a law that’s leading Medicare into a rationing scheme. That’s not going to work for seniors.
CHUCK TODD:
I understand that argument.
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
It’s a law that’s not going–
CHUCK TODD:
–but do you understand that that is, to some, just as polarizing as what you’re saying President Obama’s done? My point is how do we get out of this cycle?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
That’s a good question. I think we get out of this cycle but being positive, by offering a vision, by offering solutions and focusing on what they do to make people’s lives better. And to appeal to what unifies us as a country, as a people. We should not play identity politics as conservatives or as liberals, which is a political tactic that aims at speaking to people in ways that divide them from one another. That is wrong, in my opinion.
CHUCK TODD:
I take it that’s why you’ve spoken against Trump so quickly?
SPEAKER PAUL RYAN:
And both sides do it. Both sides do it. And I think it’s wrong, because all it will do is polarize us even further. And we cannot have a unified country if we keep doing that. So this is why I think leaders should lead to unify. This is why I’m a Jack Kemp, Ronald Reagan happy lawyer conservative.
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
You can see more of my interview with Speaker Ryan on our website, MeetthepressNBC.com. When we come back, the big battle that emerges in the Republican Party this week. Marco Rubio versus Ted Cruz. Is it about two men or two different views of what a conservative is?
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
Phew, what a show. The panel is here. NBC and Telemundo’s Jose Diaz-Balart, Pulitzer Prize winning historian, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Maggie Haberman, Presidential Campaign Correspondent for The New York Times and my pal, radio talk show host, Hugh Hewitt, who, of course, has been the must-do for every presidential contender. Doris, I want to go to this Marco Rubio/Ted Cruz fight, because I want you to go to Teddy Roosevelt for me a little bit. I mean, are we seeing a splintering of what conservatism is when you’re watching Rubio v. Cruz? Or is this just a personal spat?
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
I mean, there’s something that’s personal in terms of two sons of immigrants, the same age, the jealousy, that visceral sense, “I’m the one, no you’re the one,” but clearly, there is a big difference between their views on interventionism and nativism, their views on immigration.
I mean, the thing you realize when you look at where we were right after Romney lost and the Republican Party was talking about, “How are we going to get the Hispanics back?” Rubio might be proud now that he was part of gang of eight at that point and maybe Cruz would have been saying, “Yes, I was for legalization.” But now, it’s shifted so much that the ground is taken away. But I do think the Republican Party as it was in 1912, in my time, is undergoing a major split.
And of course, what happened then, a third party and what happens then, they split the vote and the Democrats win. It’s one of those times when the factions are not simply personal. I mean, Trump is out there possibly in a personal way.
CHUCK TODD:
Sure.
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
But these two guys, I think, and other people represent real splits in the party and I’m not sure how they’re going to come back together again. Unless Hugh can figure it all out.
CHUCK TODD:
Jose, is this about immigration or is this about authenticity?
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Well, I just think it’s about trying to win the primaries and–
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
No–
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
I don’t think it has anything to do with authenticity or anything based in reality. I mean, it’s like, hello, from the other side. I don’t understand how you can say, “I’m for something” or “I’m against something,” when in 2013, you were on the record, like Cruz was, about immigration and legalization. And you know what?
I just wish people would define words more clearly, above and beyond the fact that most people don’t even read, I guess, a senate bill. But you know, amnesty, legalization. It’s just as though you throw these words out and you don’t look at what it is exactly you’re trying to say because words don’t matter, apparently.
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
Almost like it’s on purpose. Not defending those words purposely, clearly. I think that from Cruz’s perspective, it’s about redefining immigration as a national security issue. And Cruz has been doing, despite what he said in 2013, despite the videos, despite what we know, he has been trying to make the case that he is running against Washington and that is what he is doing to Rubio.
Rubio is trying to say, “There is no real distinction between us on this issue.” Frankly, there are actually a lot of issues where there’s no distinction at all, but national security and immigration are the two. I do think politically the more that the distinction between the two men get to raise on immigration, I don’t know if you disagree with me on this, I think it helps Trump. I could be wrong, but I think to the extent that Cruz is less than a palatable alternative to the base, that can only make Trump stronger.
CHUCK TODD:
Go ahead Hugh.
HUGH HEWITT:
I think it’s kind of helping Chris Christie, because if you see the new movie “Creed,” Creed goes at the English fighter again and again, so Rubio and Cruz are killing each other and Chris Christie is standing over there, is the Rocky– Stallone character who is winning by not being in the fight.
I’ll also say about your Paul Ryan interview. I was very encouraged by that. Mark Levin is one of my very closest friends, I read The Liberty Amendments and Ameritopia, but I think he’s wrong. Paul Ryan is a new man who is beginning a turnaround, a workout, a difficult situation for the Republican Party. And like Cruz and Rubio, is young, energetic, full of ideas. So this fight can go on a long time, we’re winning.
CHUCK TODD:
Let me throw something out here, though, about whether– what’s going on here with Trump and then Cruz and Rubio. I want to show the December poll leader in 2012, 2008 and 2004 and the eventual nominee. Just to remind people that everything can change very quickly. In 2012, Gingrich, December poll leader, Romney is the eventual nominee.
Clinton, December, Obama nominee; Dean, December, Kerry nominee. And now, Trump is trying to redefine this whole thing, as we discussed, but you know, sometimes history matters.
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
Well, in the end, history shows. Of course(LAUGH)
CHUCK TODD:
Yes, come on that was a softball.
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
But you know, in the end, you want to hope that the eventual nominee slogs through New Hampshire and Iowa. They learn something from the people. To go back to Tip O’Neill, who you talked about earlier, you know, he said that you have to ask people for your vote. Remember, he had this neighbor and she didn’t vote for him and he said, “Why didn’t you vote for me?” And she said, “You didn’t ask me for my vote.”
So unless they’re out there in these states and they’re really moving around, I don’t think they can win it nationally. They think they can. The debates have given then unendless exposure; they have money enough that they don’t need the endorsements, they don’t need the momentum that comes from that. Maybe we’re in a different world. I mean, everybody is saying that–
CHUCK TODD:
Well that’s the thing, eventually–
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
–to say we’re not because we’re already in a different world than we were six months ago–
CHUCK TODD:
Eventually things change.
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Another number, 71 percent, that’s the percentage of the vote, the Latino vote that President Obama got. The Republicans, after that election, did a Mea Culpa and said, “Let’s talk about immigration in a respectful way.” And now, what are we talking about? We’re talking about the only issue on immigration that we’re hearing in the Republicans is build the wall, self-deportation, which I’ve heard before and the solution is never to have anything to do with the 11 million people.
HUGH HEWITT:
But Jose in the debate last night–
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
–words matter.
HUGH HEWITT:
In the debate last night, Mrs. Clinton embraced Libya and said, “We’ve got ISIS where we want them to be,” it’s a national security election and Republicans had a great debate.
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Right.
HUGH HEWITT:
And they’re coming together. I clapped when Donald Trump said he is going to stay–
CHUCK TODD:
You had no regrets on the clap?
HUGH HEWITT:
No regrets– It means that there will not be the third party that the professor referred to that would destroy the Republican Party. No regrets whatsoever–
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Immigration is national security?
HUGH HEWITT:
It is, but I want to talk about the fact that Hillary embraced Libya last night. That’s a volcano of terrorism and refugees; she owns it, she date stamped it last night and John Podesta stood by that video. Good weekend for the Republicans, good week for the Republicans.
CHUCK TODD:
Well, we shall see, don’t go anywhere. Because we’re going to be back with “Endgame” in less than a minute. But as we go to break, I want to share this one fun moment on SNL last night and the return of some familiar faces.
(BEGIN TAPE)
TINA FEY:
God, that was a real fun election, I was paired up with that cute little John McCain fella, may he rest in peace, I’m guessing.
KATE MCKINNON:
He’s alive.
AMY POEHLER:
Yes, I need to get back to 2008 and send a bunch of emails.
KATE MCKINNON:
No!
(END TAPE)
***COMMERCIAL BREAK***
CHUCK TODD:
The panel is here for a little “Endgame,” let’s go, you brought up the Democratic debate a little bit, Hugh. Maggie, you heard, Hillary Clinton has this one issue, fact-checked, and as he said, John Podesta stood by it. Is this going to be a problem for her or not?
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
I think it is potentially a problem. This seems to be the post-truth election in a lot of ways–
CHUCK TODD:
–by the way, Donald Trump attacking Hillary Clinton on truthism.
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
–she lies, he said repeatedly.
CHUCK TODD:
–on the video, yea.
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
Yea, so I don’t know how much that’s going to be a problem. I do think what she said about Libya is going to be a problem. I think she had a line where she said, “You know, we’ve got them right where we want them or where it’s supposed to be.” I think things like that, anything she does that links her to Obama’s foreign policy in a general election is a problem, I think more of a problem than what she said last night.
CHUCK TODD:
But did you hear anything from Bernie Sanders that says, okay, he can take her?
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
Well, I think the most important thing that Hillary did last night, it’s not that Bernie didn’t do well and had a good night, too, but she showed such amazing confidence. I mean, that moment when, “Should corporate America like you?” “Everybody should like me.” Think of the difference between 2008 when there was a question about, “Do you think you can catch Obama because you’re not likeable?”
CHUCK TODD:
Yeah.
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
And then she said, “Well, I feel hurt.” Ever since that big week when she did the debate well, when she had the Benghazi hearing and when Biden got out of the race, she’s got her internal confidence. And I think when that’s there, yes, these problems are going to come up, you have to worry about confidence becoming arrogance. But she is a better candidate now than she was six months ago, she’s better than she was in ’08.
CHUCK TODD:
Her business answer, I thought the corporate America answer was like she’s worried about the general, she wasn’t even thinking about Bernie in that one.
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
Yeah, absolutely.
CHUCK TODD:
She’s going, “Hey, I’m not going to be an anti-business Democrat, you’re not putting me in that hole,” right?
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Yeah, and the whole issue of interpretation. You know, the moon is round, cheese is round, so therefore, the moon must be made out of cheese. Any time you–
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
Where did you get that from?
CHUCK TODD:
That’s a good one.
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
Yeah.
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
It’s just an old saying. You start interpreting other things, you get away from the fact. I wish that yesterday there would have been less talk about how long it takes people to go to the bathroom than it is to deal with issues of national security that includes immigration. And every single day there are families being separated in this country because of a lack of immigration reform and we don’t know who they are and–
HUGH HEWITT:
But here’s—
CHUCK TODD:
Hugh, very quickly, let me ask you, though, but let me ask you this: When do Republicans say to themselves, our two leading candidates can’t beat Hillary Clinton?
HUGH HEWITT:
Well I don’t know that they can’t.
CHUCK TODD:
The polls show that Donald Trump and Ted Cruz are the two weakest of the top candidates against Hillary Clinton?
HUGH HEWITT:
I don’t think they have to after last night. I do believe the news of the morning is John Podesta doubling down on the video. This is the second time that Hillary has created a video narrative that is a lie and that will become the story through the Christmas dinner debate. So I think Trump can beat her. I think Ted Cruz can beat her. Chris Christie can crush her, I think Marco Rubio–
CHUCK TODD:
You think Donald Trump can beat Hillary Clinton?
HUGH HEWITT:
You know, she has a 60 percent untrustworthy number
CHUCK TODD:
Did you hear his percentage?
HUGH HEWITT:
But 60 percent untrustworthy number–
CHUCK TODD:
And Donald Trump I believe has the same number.
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Seventy-one percent and you know in Spanish, setenta y uno por ciento in case there’s a–
HUGH HEWITT:
Help me
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Yeah, that’s massive and you know what? It may be more.
CHUCK TODD:
I was just going to say I’m thinking ochenta.
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Maybe ochenta.
CHUCK TODD:
Ochenta if you’re not careful. You can take the boy out of Miami, but you can’t take the Miami out of the boy.
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
It sounds like Telemundo.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, let’s lighten it up here before we get to Feliz Navidad. It’s just five days till– it’s all I got right? I have a little bit more.
It is just five days until Christmas and rumor has it if you asked Santa for Adele tickets, you’re probably going to be waiting for a long time. For her, that U.S. tour was sold out within an hour, leaving many fans unable to say, “Hello” to their favorite chanteuse. So someone like you as well as the Presidential candidates may not be seeing Adele next year, but while I’ve been doing these long sit downs with the contenders and the very serious interviews you’ve seen here on Meet The Press, we’ve had some fun for Facebook. We’ve been asking them what their first concert was. And wait till you see some of these answers, it is hilarious, watch.
(BEGIN TAPE)
JOHN KASICH:
Boy the first concert, it was probably a country concert, although I’m not a big country music fan.
BERNIE SANDERS:
I went to a Pete Seeger contest– a concert a very long time ago.
JOHN KASICH:
I mean, I like it, but I’m more of a Lincoln Park kinda guy.
TED CRUZ:
When I was in junior high I went to Men at Work in concert.
DONALD TRUMP:
The first concert I remember going to was the Beatles a long time ago and they were terrific.
JEB BUSH:
James Brown, 1966. Say it loud, “I’m black and I’m proud.”
(END TAPE)
CHUCK TODD:
Drop the mic. Look at you, you’re speechless!
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
I got nothing.
CHUCK TODD:
You got nothing? You got nothing?
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
The Beatles, though–
CHUCK TODD:
Doris quick, first concert?
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
Oh, I dreamed of being at a concert with Elvis, I never got there. But gyrating on the stage, I dreamed it 20 times. (LAUGHTER)
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Santana in 1971–
CHUCK TODD:
Nice, that’s a cool one.
HUGH HEWITT:
I saw Bob Dylan in 1976 with Joan Baez and Joni Mitchell
CHUCK TODD:
Two cool ones.
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
Madonna, in the 1990s.
CHUCK TODD:
Oh, nice, do I have to admit mine?
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
Yes.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, all right, I worked concessions at Neil Diamond.
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
All right.
CHUCK TODD:
That’s all I’m going to say, that I worked concessions, but the stuff the first one that I paid for was Living Colour and Rolling Stones.
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Oh, that’s a good one, too–
CHUCK TODD:
Steel Wheels, ‘89. That’s all right, I went there more for Living Colour and I came away going wow.
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
And look who’s still giving concerts, not Living Colour, the Stones
CHUCK TODD:
Exactly.
HUGH HEWITT:
Not Living Colour.
CHUCK TODD:
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all of you.
DORIS KEARNS GOODWIN:
Thank you.
HUGH HEWITT:
Thank you.
MAGGIE HABERMAN:
Thank you.
JOSE DIAZ-BALART:
Thanks.
CHUCK TODD:
All right, that’s all for today. We’ll be back next week, have a very Merry Christmas and don’t forget because if it’s Sunday, two days after Christmas, it’ll be Meet The Press.
* * *END OF TRANSCRIPT* * *
For more information, please contact:
Olivia Petersen
NBC News
202-885-4159
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MEET THE PRESS
“Meet the Press” is where newsmakers come to make news — setting the political agenda and spotlighting the impact Washington decision-making has on people across the country. “Meet the Press” reaches more than 3 million people every Sunday through its broadcasts and millions more through NBCNews.com, the #TweetThePress interview series, Flipboard, and social media platforms. Chuck Todd is the moderator of “Meet the Press” and John Reiss is the executive producer.
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